Question about "exploits"

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Netheos
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Re: Question about "exploits"

Postby Netheos » 10 May 2017, 14:11

TD fouling is a known issue but we can't enforce a rule forbidding it right now, meaning it's in the accepted grey area.

We would only be able to punish reported coaches, giving automatically an unfair random advantage to the non reported coaches using the bug.

It's definitely on the top of our list of bug to fix though.
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Stottie
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Re: Question about "exploits"

Postby Stottie » 10 May 2017, 15:34

So just to be 100% what is the official call on this? Because I'm still not sure.

You said you would only be able to punish reported coaches - So do you see this as cheating? As in we aren't allow to use it and if a player uses it against us they should be reported? And if so who to?

Thanks.

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Netheos
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Re: Question about "exploits"

Postby Netheos » 10 May 2017, 16:52

Stottie wrote:So just to be 100% what is the official call on this? Because I'm still not sure.

You said you would only be able to punish reported coaches - So do you see this as cheating? As in we aren't allow to use it and if a player uses it against us they should be reported? And if so who to?

Thanks.


As explained above, TD fouling is in the accepted grey area. We won't punish coaches using it.
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JimmyFantastic
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Re: Question about "exploits"

Postby JimmyFantastic » 10 May 2017, 18:53

Netheos wrote:
Stottie wrote:So just to be 100% what is the official call on this? Because I'm still not sure.

You said you would only be able to punish reported coaches - So do you see this as cheating? As in we aren't allow to use it and if a player uses it against us they should be reported? And if so who to?

Thanks.


As explained above, TD fouling is in the accepted grey area. We won't punish coaches using it.


Even if someone does it in the finals?!
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Re: Question about "exploits"

Postby dode74 » 10 May 2017, 20:29

Any variation between the rules in the ladder and the finals will be explicitly stated to the participants in the relevant thread.
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Netheos
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Re: Question about "exploits"

Postby Netheos » 11 May 2017, 09:01

JimmyFantastic wrote:
Netheos wrote:
Stottie wrote:So just to be 100% what is the official call on this? Because I'm still not sure.

You said you would only be able to punish reported coaches - So do you see this as cheating? As in we aren't allow to use it and if a player uses it against us they should be reported? And if so who to?

Thanks.


As explained above, TD fouling is in the accepted grey area. We won't punish coaches using it.


Even if someone does it in the finals?!


It's being discussed but it's pretty likely to be forbidden during the Play Offs.
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JimmyFantastic
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Re: Question about "exploits"

Postby JimmyFantastic » 11 May 2017, 11:47

Cool. And how about the Leader re-rolls, Blitz catch re-rolls, and extra KO recoveries?
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Re: Question about "exploits"

Postby dode74 » 11 May 2017, 14:27

Being discussed. Expect the rules to be more stringent in the finals, though.
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Javelin
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Re: Question about "exploits"

Postby Javelin » 11 May 2017, 16:58

Sid The Coach wrote:Could we please have an official position on the matter?

Maybe let's hear from the rest of the admins then (and preferably from those who do actually play in COL themselves and care about the state of affairs there)?


I'm fairly certain ALL of the admins care about the state of affairs in the COL, or they wouldn't be volunteering their personal time to try to create and maintain the ladder.

But I agree that making the rules as clear as possible is an important goal.

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Re: Question about "exploits"

Postby dode74 » 12 May 2017, 08:04

Sid The Coach wrote:Could we please have an official position on the matter?
You have it already.
Because currently all we've got is that Dode's "Consider them house rules", which is incorrect both by intention and technically, as at least the TD fouling is mentioned in the "Gameplay/Skills known issues", and two more points have been confirmed to be not working as intended and reported to the developers by QA (though haven't been included into the list yet).
It is correct both by intention and technically. It is considered a house rule in CCL to allow what is a known rulebook deviation in the game. Allowed rulebook deviations are, by definition, house rules.
So at the very best Dode had expressed his personal opinion, which I don't believe has enough authority by itself to be reckoned as an official statement. Even taking his COL admin status into consideration, isn't it a collegiate body? Maybe let's hear from the rest of the admins then (and preferably from those who do actually play in COL themselves and care about the state of affairs there)?
First, I don't just post this stuff willy-nilly. It's discussed among us in most cases. Second, I take umbrage at the suggestion that I, or any of the admins, don't care about the state of affairs in CCL: it wouldn't exist at all if not for the work I (and all the admins) put in. I deliberately don't play in CCL to prevent any conflict of interest. I (and I think I speak for the other admins here) don't expect gratitude for the work we put in, but I certainly don't expect ingratitude either. You, sir, owe us an apology.
At least the TD fouling should definitely be forbidden if you ask me, as it's an explicit exploit and an easy one to police. Just investigate the reports on the occasion, just as you currently do with verbal abuse in chat.
It is not easy to police at all. First off, we have no idea how many people even know it shouldn't be allowed: consider all the coaches who only know BB2 and consider what it allows to be the rules of BB without knowing TT. What happens when two such players play each other and use it, and one later learns it is not allowed? What about if someone uses it not knowing it is not allowed but is then reported? Ignorance, in this situation, is the single best excuse.
Then consider the fact that we'd need to try to communicate such things to all those players, players who we know don't even read what's on the front page of the game or on the forum about the 5-concession limit - the number of "but I didn't know" complaints regarding concessions is still large. Do we just ban them for playing as the game allows them? Or do we allow them one for free? Then we'd need to track the thousands of players who we have and have not told. It differs from concessions in terms of frequency: concession is a *very* frequent issue while TDFouling is not (although it's something we'll be tracking closely soon enough).
No, it's not easy to police at all. Cup is a different (and far smaller) kettle of fish, and the rules will differ there.
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