2-minute turns next season

Nesun
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Re: 2-minute turns next season

Postby Nesun » 02 May 2017, 13:55

I, too, agree with help.

I always thought weird we got more time in CCL than COL as CCL is supposed to be where people know their stuff.

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dode74
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Re: 2-minute turns next season

Postby dode74 » 02 May 2017, 21:07

2 minutes is plenty of time to think over your moves with all the animations and extra timers added on each action. Sure having more time on a critical turn can be nice, but not at the cost of dragging the game length out by <Dode can probably insert the average game length with 2 minute turns vs 3 minute turns here>.
I don't normally take Open Ladder data, but I took a sample of the past month of play to compare it with Champion Ladder in order to answer your question

The mean length of a match which is played to completion in Champion Ladder is 74.47 minutes; the median is 73.3 minutes.
The mean length of a match which is played to completion in Open Ladder is 73.19 minutes; the median is 72.91 minutes.

Your completed 3 minute matches are, on average, being dragged out by an extra 1 minute and 17 seconds by having 3-minute turn lengths.

To help visualise the difference between the divisions, I put the completed matches into 5-minute bins to produce the following histogram (expressed as percentage of completed games due to the difference in the number of games played total):
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There is higher variance in the longer turns, meaning your 3-minute match is more likely to be either longer or shorter than a 2-minute match, but on average the difference is not much at all.
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help
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Joined: 28 April 2017, 05:38

Re: 2-minute turns next season

Postby help » 03 May 2017, 00:49

Neat! Cheers Dode. The data shows that there are way more games that take over 90 minutes with 3 minute turns compared to 2, which is exactly the problem we have.

Eyeballing it, it looks like 9% of games go over 90 minutes in open and about 16% do so in champs. Is that about right?

This is without considering that averages of open vs champs are not a great measurement unfortunately - a stomp in open will give a concede, which isn't counted below, while a stomp in champs just leads to sped up turns for the rest of the game. This explains the higher amount of faster games found in champs.

My bad for saying average time in my previous post without realising we don't really have a good set of data to compare.

Where can we access this data, by the way?

Fashbinder
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Re: 2-minute turns next season

Postby Fashbinder » 03 May 2017, 03:42

Where can we access this data, by the way?
http://www.mordrek.com/goblinSpy/web/goblinSpy.html

Duration under league results can be exported.

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dode74
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Re: 2-minute turns next season

Postby dode74 » 03 May 2017, 06:48

Yes, it's 9.56% in Open compared with 16.3% in Champs.

Why is "90 minutes" the line at which it becomes a problem such that the whole league needs to change? To rephrase your comment:
  • Sure having more time on a critical turn can be nice, but not at the cost of dragging the game length out by <Dode can probably insert the proportion of longer games with 2 minute turns vs 3 minute turns here>.
Roughly 1 in 14 (7%) more games is lasting a bit longer than a few people would like. Is that worth the extra time on critical turns? The answer will necessarily be subjective.
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SirIronclad
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Re: 2-minute turns next season

Postby SirIronclad » 03 May 2017, 19:46

Is that worth the extra time on critical turns?
That's why I would like to see something like "reserve time". You get 2 minutes (or maybe even 90 seconds) to play out each turn. If you ever need more than that you have something like 2 extra minutes available to you for one match. In the end we'd all benefit from faster turn times forcing us to really think ahead and plan out our own turn while our opponent is playing.

help
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Re: 2-minute turns next season

Postby help » 03 May 2017, 22:39

Yeah, tbh fam even with the data being open vs champs the numbers are closer than I would have thought. There's no way to get a proper comparison unless 2 minute turns are trialled in champs.

1.5 hours is a somewhat arbitrary cutoff mentioned last page, that's about the limit of how long a game can go before it gets into 'too difficult to find a chunk of time for' territory.

I still think it would be a worthwhile QOL improvement for champs.

Also definitely worth starting to lobby for a better time system in LE.. SirIronclad, yeah boy something like that.

Going off topic here to theorise. Let's call that extra time your time bank. Not going to address how much you get.

I'd go with
- Remove extra timers on your turn
- Extra timers on opponents turn take from your time bank
- Going over your turn timer starts using your bank
- Disconnecting uses your bank until reconnect
- Timers keep running as animations play out
- AFK players have their turn time reduced to say 30 seconds, Hearthstone style

One can dream, right?

Uppercase
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Re: 2-minute turns next season

Postby Uppercase » 20 May 2017, 16:01

The inactivity delay is where the solution is in my opinion. I sometimes (not often) realize that even 3 minutes turn can go very quick when you have important decisions to make, especially when your 4th or 5th action is dependent of the 1st one.

Inactivity timer would definitely increase QOL while playing against AFK. There must be a way to detect player activity.

seriousjest
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Re: 2-minute turns next season

Postby seriousjest » 21 May 2017, 06:50

Come play on PS4. We have 2-minute timers. :lol: :twisted:

But seriously, at the end of S6, we'll be able to compare what turn times looked like in S6 vs. previous seasons.
PS4 Champion Cup co-admin, co-host of "Live from the ManCave!!!," and your favorite Blood Bowl coach's favorite Blood Bowl coach

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SirIronclad
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Re: 2-minute turns next season

Postby SirIronclad » 22 June 2017, 04:05

I'm hoping for 2 minute turns btw. 8-)


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