Pas de Khorne dans les tournois NAF

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PapyHarzen
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Joined: 16 April 2009, 18:10

Pas de Khorne dans les tournois NAF

Postby PapyHarzen » 15 January 2013, 09:50

En fait, pour être précis, la NAF ne valide pas les résultats des joueurs utilisant le roster Khorne dans les tournois NAF.
Pour faire court, après une période d'observation l'année dernière, la NAF a finalement décidé de ne pas valider ce roster en raison de son manque de test sérieux (type procédure d'agrément "BBRC"), de son aspect "non fini" concernant les champions, par exemple, et à cause du précédent que cela pourrait engendrer dans l'optique où Cyanide/Focus aurait l'idée d'en sortir d'autres de leur chapiot.
Le fait que GW lui même ne veuille pas intégrer ce roster dans le CRP n'aide pas non plus... :lol:
Toute l'explication (en grand'breton) ci-dessous:
"Lycos sur le site de la NAF a écrit:

Some of the membership will be aware that in the October of 2012, the electronic version of the game that Cyanide/Focus have a license for, produced a new add on to the main game.

In this additional content, a new race appeared called The Demons of Khorne, referred in short by many, simply as Khorne.

This additional new race/roster will have caught many by surprise. There were rumors about it but in our hobby, that is one thing we are never short of but they emerged with other content on the PC and games console versions, which of course not everyone has or uses.

We, the hobby in general, therefore need to make decisions in all parts of the world, whether we include this new race in to our generally approved set of races for our local leagues and such like.

This also means that we, the NAF, need make the same decision and the committee has been doing some research to reach what it feels is the right thing to do. The decision needs to be based on several different areas and as much as we, the NAF committee wanted to announce our decision, we also feel that explaining the logic behind it was just as important.

At this point, January 2013, we are not including the Khorne roster to the list of approved rosters for tournaments. I say at this point because in the explanation below, you can see this may change.

Why or how did we reach this decision?

Well, there are a number of things to consider. Let us start with the structure of the roster itself. On the general face of it, the roster seems to have been placed at what we would call 1.5. This means it’s not up there with the very best races but it’s going to have a better win ratio than those in 2 and 3. On initial feedback, this seems to be where it fits but it is still fairly early days. It seems to be fun to play and there is a VERY compelling case that a new race adds a bit of excitement which cannot be denied. Of the five on the NAF committee, four appear in the top 10 most played coaches in the world so we would be the first to say a new race would be fun for us too! But there is quite a lot more to consider and that is where we have to think about what this means long term for NAF and it’s members.

The roster was created by Focus/Cyanide it seems and they were helped by a small group of players who did a great job working with what limited time, resource and information they had. I have spoken to all three of those helpers and expressed thanks and in the process got considerable feedback. I have also spoken to GW and without writing paragraphs on the subject, we need to consider the following:

Existing Blood Bowl races have come out of a rigorous testing process that was managed by GW themselves. They were ably assisted by members of our community and from the outset of the game, the BBRC (Blood Bowl Rules Committee) were completely accepted as the established testing and discussion ground for rules and races. (That committee is currently in hibernation but one could suspect that will be back in the future).

The Khorne roster didn’t go down that path. Far from it. There are other issues such as no agreement on Star Players and whilst other forums are happy to run polls and make house rules… quite who is to say they are the right people to make such decisions? The NAF and it’s committee is not the police force of Blood Bowl in the absence of the BBRC, although I am aware that some of the members want it to be so, other members completely disagree.

So we have a new race appear that has still got some unfinished work to it. Local leagues house ruling star players is fine, that and variants of all kinds is built in to the core fabric of the hobby. But for the NAF to suddenly become the arbiter or decision maker of such rules is absolutely not in our remit.

Then another very serious consideration is setting a path, precedent or platform for the future committees. It is perfectly acceptable to reason that at some point further expansions to the online game will appear. Both Focus and GW will want their agreement to be profitable for both parties. They are commercial companies and need to make profits. The best way for this to continue is to make further expansions and have the online community purchase them.

So what happens in the future when two totally unheard of races, let’s say Space Marines and Gretchins, get launched and one is totally over powered to all the other races? If we let Khorne in now under this approval mechanism, how do we say no to any future races coming in from the same route to market? We cannot because there will be global confusion about which races are approved and those not. Once we say yes to one….it stands to reason and logic that you would have to accept all. If you don’t, there will be chaos (no pun intended).

When I contacted GW to ask if this Khorne roster was likely to make the CRP in the future, I was told, absolutely not. Of course that could change, but the answer was emphatic. We could very easily have some 6, 7…8 more rosters like this in the years to come and without the diligent testing process there is every likelihood that eventually one roster will break it. And then there is an awful mess.

One of the great strengths NAF has given over the years is the continuity of tournament rules. We have many different languages and cultures in our membership but it remains fantastic to know that any of us can play on the other side of the world and we all know what races and rules we are using.
The World Cup proved that. We break from this stance because we feel we can import this or that to the desktop world because it appears in an online computer game… we are going to be in confusion.

It is possible Khorne could be accepted. Change happens all the time and for whatever reason in the future this roster may find itself going through the “traditional process” and if that is the case, we would welcome it in. But until such time…..no."


Papy

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Ace
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Re: Pas de Khorne dans les tournois NAF

Postby Ace » 15 January 2013, 17:58

Merci Papy.
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erestor
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Re: Pas de Khorne dans les tournois NAF

Postby erestor » 15 January 2013, 18:26

Tant pis... Pour une fois qu'une équipe sortait un peu du lot d'un point de vue stratégique.

En même temps, je n'y participe pas aux tournois NAF. :mrgreen:

Bon en fait, je comprends parfaitement cette décision. Ce qui est dommage à mon sens, c'est que BB version PC pourrait être un support inestimable pour tester des nouveautés.
As the long departed Commissioner Three-horn famously said on many occasions “This is Blood Bowl, buddy, anything could happen!”.

PapyHarzen
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Joined: 16 April 2009, 18:10

Re: Pas de Khorne dans les tournois NAF

Postby PapyHarzen » 16 January 2013, 12:50

Bon en fait, je comprends parfaitement cette décision. Ce qui est dommage à mon sens, c'est que BB version PC pourrait être un support inestimable pour tester des nouveautés.
Oui, éventuellement, c'est "pourrait" qui est le point qui dérange en fait.
Il faudrait que le jeu soit exempt de bugs, avec tous les inducements/champions, bref soit 100% exact pour vraiment faire ce genre de test.
Et encore il faudrait pouvoir faire des sortes de béta ouvertes assez longues (au moins 6 mois) pour caler avec la procédure BBRC, peu envisageable dans un contexte "commercial" sans même parler de la collecte des infos générées au vu du suivi "pro" des responsables communication... :roll:

Papy

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Evilstein
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Re: Pas de Khorne dans les tournois NAF

Postby Evilstein » 27 January 2013, 18:50

Surtout que les collectes d'info sont via BBManager.....

Merci Papy, de toute façon c'est ce qu'ils méritent a vouloir faire n'importe quoi.

D'ailleurs le roster Khorn n'est meme pas fini....y'a pas toutes les stars. A la poubelle, la ou il aurait du rester avant que le jeu soit réellement fini.
Celui qui n'a pas d'objectifs ne risque pas de les atteindre.

erestor
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Re: Pas de Khorne dans les tournois NAF

Postby erestor » 28 January 2013, 08:12

Surtout que les collectes d'info sont via BBManager.....

Merci Papy, de toute façon c'est ce qu'ils méritent a vouloir faire n'importe quoi.

D'ailleurs le roster Khorn n'est meme pas fini....y'a pas toutes les stars. A la poubelle, la ou il aurait du rester avant que le jeu soit réellement fini.
Tu l'as essayé ? Tu as joué avec ? Contre ? Parce que c'est enfin un roster qui change les sensations de jeu, qui offre de nouvelles perspectives avec la Frénésie quasi-généralisée et l'absence de mutations. Qu'il y ait des défauts voire d'énormes lacunes dans la version PC, j'en conviens. Que de ce fait, tout apport ne vaut a priori rien du tout, c'est juste s'arc-bouter sur des principes. Non, Khorne ne mérite pas la poubelle, qu'il mérite des tests, ok, une validation, ok, mais la poubelle, c'est bidon.
As the long departed Commissioner Three-horn famously said on many occasions “This is Blood Bowl, buddy, anything could happen!”.

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Evilstein
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Re: Pas de Khorne dans les tournois NAF

Postby Evilstein » 28 January 2013, 20:37

Khorne est un roster qui m'a l'air equilibré j'ai jouer qq matchs mais pas tant que ca. En effet il ne mérite pas la poubelle car il est pas si mal.
Je n'ai rien contre dans l'absolu mais je pense qu'il aurait été plus sur de finir le jeu avant de lancer ce roster. (Stars, Slaans, Chaos Pacte)
Merci a ceux qui ont bossé dessus quand meme. Désolé, en effet j'ai été trop excessif et je m'en excuse.
C'est juste que plus le temps passe et plus je réalise que nous n'auront jamais toutes les stars...d'ailleurs ils ont oublié Borak dans le Roster Khorn, tout un symbole...
Celui qui n'a pas d'objectifs ne risque pas de les atteindre.

erestor
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Joined: 27 January 2009, 20:42
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Re: Pas de Khorne dans les tournois NAF

Postby erestor » 28 January 2013, 23:27

Khorne est un roster qui m'a l'air equilibré j'ai jouer qq matchs mais pas tant que ca. En effet il ne mérite pas la poubelle car il est pas si mal.
Je n'ai rien contre dans l'absolu mais je pense qu'il aurait été plus sur de finir le jeu avant de lancer ce roster. (Stars, Slaans, Chaos Pacte)
Merci a ceux qui ont bossé dessus quand meme. Désolé, en effet j'ai été trop excessif et je m'en excuse.
C'est juste que plus le temps passe et plus je réalise que nous n'auront jamais toutes les stars...d'ailleurs ils ont oublié Borak dans le Roster Khorn, tout un symbole...
Sur le reste, tu le sais bien, on est parfaitement d'accord. ;)
As the long departed Commissioner Three-horn famously said on many occasions “This is Blood Bowl, buddy, anything could happen!”.


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