dode74 wrote:I suspect the makers of the FM series, and probably the Madden series as well as FIFA and WES, would disagree. Yes, there were elements which were different, but they were largely the same game. The big differences were in the player stats and who they played for.
That's a bit of a weak analogy since 1) what remains the same is the basic rules since they are meant to be computer versions of real-world sports and the game is aimed at fans of those real-world sports, 2) the actual game mechanics do change over time, they just continue to focus on approximating what is happening in the real-world sport. Board games are not a real world sport that needs to be updated yearly to better approximate the game on the computer. There's no yearly "Chess" update.
dode74 wrote:You seem to be forgetting that this is a port of a board game.
Is that what real-time mode and blitz were? Oh, sorry... I forgot... if you don't care about those parts then they effectively don't exist! Why don't you open the game and click the single player button, or direct IP game, etc... and see which option (blitz or classic) someone who isn't a TT player would gravitate toward. That's a deliberate UI decision right there, to have blitz on the left, with text that promotes it over classic, and with the animated guy instead of the greyscale guy who lacks animation. Cyanide/Focus wanted blitz and realtime to be the product's focus, it just didn't work out for them because their realtime mode was terrible and incoherent.
The current product has become focused on classic mode, because everything else failed to get the non TT people. There's no reason the next product has to be like that. BBSC isn't. Dawn of War was, theoretically, a "port" of WH40k, it just didn't use the minis rules to do so, because it aimed to entice RTS players into buying it as well as fans of the WH40K franchise... and it did exactly that. Know what Dawn of War 2 wasnt? The same game as DoW 1.
KhorneDog74 wrote:I don't disagree it shouldn't be done better, and I know how I'd do it. That doesn't change the fact that the leagues online - the ones who play LRB6 as far as possible - still have the option to play without Khorne.
They also have the option to play without CPoMB, so I have no idea what all the fuss is about. They can play without the Block skill, too. It is a ridiculous argument to claim Khorne is an optional change to the game in so much as there is no mechanic forcing you to play as Khorne. There's nothing that prevents you from playing against Khorne unless you convince everyone else to never play it, voluntarily. The AI in single player is notoriously hard to convince... unless you think going in and editing the DB to remove Khorne altogether also counts as it being inherently optional.
Khorne's addition forced everyone who wants to play anything but a secluded private league, to deal with it. This includes people who play in the public MM leagues (which represent the vast majority of play as far as we know) and didn't even buy CE! To say they're optional in this product is silly beyond measure.
dode74 wrote:But then that community won't be these people.
The composition of communities change, always. At any given time a community is always "these people" by definition.
dode74 wrote:I, for one, will not buy a game which does not give me the opportunity to play LRB 6 BB. I'd rather play direct-IP or on FUMBBL, frankly.
First... this is rich coming from one of the guys involved in making the Khorne roster. Second, deciding that you'll hate change before you know what change is just makes you an old fart and a luddite. While there's nothing inherently wrong with being an old fart, there are no old farts that help build the future... they just get in the way of the future.
Also, you know what's more useful to Cyanide and Focus than you are? 10 new customers who aren't you. Obviously they have to decide if they can actually appeal to those 10 new customers, first... if not, they might as well stick with you. If so.. well... as important as you feel you are, money talks and old farts walk.
dode74 wrote:Don't get me wrong: Chaos League was a fun game. But it wasn't Blood Bowl. All I'm suggesting is that the option is there to change the community in the way you suggest and keep the current members of the community happy: all you have to do is make things optional.
As a developer myself I LOVE how easy things are in the minds of non-developers. "All you have to do is...." develop a second game that I want alongside the game you're actually making, to make me and your actual target demographic happy at the same time! If the game they're making is already sufficiently close to the existing CRP game then sure, make an option to play straight CRP. If it's not particularly close to CRP then its not some "little toggle" to make it into CRP, it's writing an entire second product to do that.... which is totally rational since they already sell a product that lets you play CRP with the exception of that Khorne roster you're partially responsible for.
Who knows... maybe BB2 is just another excuse to sell people another copy of the same game, just like LE and CE were. We know that sales of those subsequent versions required steep discounts to get anyone who had previous editions to upgrade, which makes me wonder why they'd bother doing it yet again under that diminishing returns model. Given that everyone involved in the current product no longer works for the company, I'm inclined to think otherwise, but I don't have a functional oujia board or crystal ball, so....