What team for long-term? Advice wanted

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Dalthius
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Re: What team for long-term? Advice wanted

Postby Dalthius » 29 October 2011, 20:46

I know nothing of multiplayer, so I'd have to look at the difference between open and league play. Whichever option allows for long term play and team building.

Holy Terror
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Re: What team for long-term? Advice wanted

Postby Holy Terror » 30 October 2011, 03:36

Lol I'm guessing Claws is the skill to have these days.

I'm torn between DE, Chaos (my old team), and Necromantic. Part of me even wants to try my hand at humans again.
Claw is overrated, but if you just want a long term team to kill other teams...chaos or nurgle are the way to go.
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Koadah
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Re: What team for long-term? Advice wanted

Postby Koadah » 30 October 2011, 08:38

Chaos or Nurgle.
They are the two strongest teams at high TV, because they can access to the no brain combo Might Blow, Claw, Piling On.
Not really. They are strong because they have access to the widest variety of skills so their players can take more skills before seeing diminishing returns.

Even if you nerf C-POMB being able to choose two heads, extra arms, big hand is pretty handy especially on a +AG and/or dodge guy. And you can do it on any player. On many linos you hit diminishing returns after taking block/wrestle.
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dode74
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Re: What team for long-term? Advice wanted

Postby dode74 » 30 October 2011, 10:02

They are strong at high TV because they have access
Corrected that statement. The assumption is that they can maintain high TV, which even the best can't (see Chuck vs Bloodbowl on FUMBBL for a well-coached and good team being taken apart for a few games).
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MattDakka
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Re: What team for long-term? Advice wanted

Postby MattDakka » 30 October 2011, 15:28

Generally speaking, the teams more suited to play well and to keep a high TV are Chaos and Nurgle, for access to mutations/strength skills and because they start with at least 4 players having ST 4. Yes, 2 heads, big hand and other stuff is useful, but everybody knows that the combo Claw/MB/PO is the most used, you can't play Chaos and Nurgle without killer players.
Yes, they can have a bad match and lose some TV, but these teams can stay at high TV easier than the other teams (Nurgle has Regeneration spread around, which helps reducing injuries).
For the sake of curiosity it could be interesting to check which teams are above TV 1900 on FOL.
I think mostly Chaos, because it's more popular than Nurgle in MM (personal experience).
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ghmongo
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Re: What team for long-term? Advice wanted

Postby ghmongo » 30 October 2011, 16:15

Yes, 2 heads, big hand and other stuff is useful, but everybody knows that the combo Claw/MB/PO is the most used, you can't play Chaos and Nurgle without killer players.
Yes you can. In a metagame filled with Amazons and Elves, skills like Prehensile Tail, Disturbing Presence and Tackle are clearly more useful than Claw/MB/PO.

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MattDakka
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Re: What team for long-term? Advice wanted

Postby MattDakka » 30 October 2011, 16:28

Yes, 2 heads, big hand and other stuff is useful, but everybody knows that the combo Claw/MB/PO is the most used, you can't play Chaos and Nurgle without killer players.
Yes you can. In a metagame filled with Amazons and Elves, skills like Prehensile Tail, Disturbing Presence and Tackle are clearly more useful than Claw/MB/PO.
Honestly, at high TV in MM in FOL I very rarely face Amazons and Elves. ;) Yes, I know that the skills you suggested are strong against agile/fragile teams, but we are discussing high TV, and at high TV you are more likely to play bashers than elves/amazons (hence the reason of the killing combo spam), because the fragile teams can't survive enough to mantain their TV high, high TV is not their optimal TV spot (I play all the teams, so I think to have some clues about).
Disturbing presence is very rarely picked by Chaos players, only Nurgle has it, because it's a starting skill, it is not cost effective now, once it was combined with Foul Appearance, but now... there are better mutations to choose.
I agree on Tackle, it's a general skill really useful for killers, about Prehensile Tail... I remember I faced one high TV Chaos team with one warrior sporting PT, but he was a killer, and PT was just a complement of his other killing skills.
The core skills for Chaos are Claw/MB/PO or Tackle, or MB/Tackle, and some Guard here and there to support the killers.
Guard is another important skill, but usually there are less Guard players than the killer ones in a Chaos/Nurgle team.
They absolutely need to remove opponent players, in order to stand a chance of winning.
This leads to the Claw/MB/PO spam.
Last edited by MattDakka on 30 October 2011, 19:12, edited 1 time in total.
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dode74
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Re: What team for long-term? Advice wanted

Postby dode74 » 30 October 2011, 18:14

Matt's synopsis is sound if you work form the assumption that maintaining a high TV is the aim. If the aim is to win games then there are 13 races better at that than Chaos and 15 better than Nurgle (by win% from FOL stats). The top 3 are Undead, Lizards and Amazons by win%.
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Koadah
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Re: What team for long-term? Advice wanted

Postby Koadah » 30 October 2011, 18:35

They are strong at high TV because they have access
Corrected that statement. The assumption is that they can maintain high TV, which even the best can't (see Chuck vs Bloodbowl on FUMBBL for a well-coached and good team being taken apart for a few games).

I don't think that really needed correcting Dode. I was quoting a post that already specified high TV.

But since you mention it... The teams do get cut down but it tends to be the weaker players that go first as part of the strategy is to protect the stars.

So you can end up with a stars + rookies team that is still strong at the lower TV.
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Koadah
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Re: What team for long-term? Advice wanted

Postby Koadah » 30 October 2011, 19:03

Matt's synopsis is sound if you work form the assumption that maintaining a high TV is the aim. If the aim is to win games then there are 13 races better at that than Chaos and 15 better than Nurgle (by win% from FOL stats). The top 3 are Undead, Lizards and Amazons by win%.
Actually I thought we were talking about a single player campaign. ;)


What is probably more important is the league that you are playing in. Pure Bash works OK at high TV Box/MM but that doesn't count for much if you go out of the Majors the first time that you meet some elves.

The Fumbbl Cup kicks off on Wednesday so we'll see how well the ultrabashers do against the ultra dodgers. ;)

The Black Cup ended up being contested by two elven teams.
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