Treeman ? on a 5+5 roll

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Lod1926
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Joined: 11 October 2011, 19:43

Treeman ? on a 5+5 roll

Postby Lod1926 » 15 October 2011, 20:10

A friend asked and I can’t remember what the consensus was (thought there was a long thread on this question). If you roll a 5+5 on a skill up for a Treeman aren’t you better off taking Jump Up instead of the +MV? Since you get no penalty to stand up with JU (so no roll), it actually is lower to your teams TV (-10) and if you really wanted to attempt it a block with an AG roll ( :lol: ) with the +2. I can’t remember how it works in the game (or on TT for that matter).

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dode74
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Re: Treeman ? on a 5+5 roll

Postby dode74 » 15 October 2011, 20:20

It's a valid point, but really depends on how often you think the ST6 player will actually hit the ground. Most teams tend to avoid rather than attack him, so the MA may be more useful in general play and will still allow him to stand without needing to roll (although he will have no ability to move afterwards).
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zoraster
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Re: Treeman ? on a 5+5 roll

Postby zoraster » 16 October 2011, 02:54

Core point to remember is a Tree that doesn’t have to roll to stand up is very rarely knocked down. Stand up rolls are all that motivates most coaches to engage a Tree. You need the extra movement to stay involved in the game once that vulnerability is removed.

Jump up is a poor double 5 option. Nice when theory crafting but any regular ‘fling coach will rapidly see the advantage of being able to regularly move 3-5 squares as opposed to having scope to move that once or twice you get knocked over. Movement is such a big deal on a Tree that you can even make a reasonably good case for taking Sure Feet on the first (non 5s) double. When they still had loner and Bertha, Zara et al were not options I was a firm advocate of that path myself.

Juriel
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Joined: 01 July 2009, 06:04

Re: Treeman ? on a 5+5 roll

Postby Juriel » 16 October 2011, 12:53

The only reason for people to punch a tree down is because they hope it stays down. Just take the +MA, and be able to actually reposition when they stop doing so. Or take Block if you plan to intend to be hitting with him a lot (and expect he will root down all the time anyway).

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Viajero
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Re: Treeman ? on a 5+5 roll

Postby Viajero » 16 October 2011, 19:00

The only reason for people to punch a tree down is because they hope it stays down.
Not only that but also because they hope it also takes root in trying so. Actual chances of getting a tree up AND not rooting are 1/2 x 5/6 = 41%.

I d take B.l.o.c.k. Wood elves in many key ocassions require the tree too reliably hit in the opening sequence of a turn. Even if that is not the case it is not like you can avoid hitting with him because of the Root risk.

Block in the tree achieve two things: 1st is minimizes turnovers, 2nd it extracts all that MB - ST6 equalizing power the tree otherwise has dormant (even with 3 MA or JU). In additin it helps preventing the tree to be put down in the first place.
My general availability to start games is 20:00 - 21:30 GMT+1 during the week with some more flexibility on weekends.

Lod1926
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Joined: 11 October 2011, 19:43

Re: Treeman ? on a 5+5 roll

Postby Lod1926 » 17 October 2011, 13:09

I agree on the Block for the doubles...his question was for a Woodie team and the Treeman had gotten block on a previous skill up. We just couldn't remember all the advantages/disadvantages to JU vs. +MA. I think I'd agree on a Flinger team the +MA would be more useful to get him in the action. On a Woodie Team the Treeman seems to get ganged up on more since it seems easier to isolate him as all the Elves are running about. A target especially when a WoE team has a for sure score that's untouchable by a slower opponent and they decide "Hey lets put the Treeman down and kick him a few times to get even!" :lol:

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Managarn
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Re: Treeman ? on a 5+5 roll

Postby Managarn » 17 October 2011, 13:47

I agree on the Block for the doubles...his question was for a Woodie team and the Treeman had gotten block on a previous skill up. We just couldn't remember all the advantages/disadvantages to JU vs. +MA. I think I'd agree on a Flinger team the +MA would be more useful to get him in the action. On a Woodie Team the Treeman seems to get ganged up on more since it seems easier to isolate him as all the Elves are running about. A target especially when a WoE team has a for sure score that's untouchable by a slower opponent and they decide "Hey lets put the Treeman down and kick him a few times to get even!" :lol:
Get the movement if he already has block, one of the reason most people dont take the tree on woodies is because he cant keep up with the action.

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Viajero
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Re: Treeman ? on a 5+5 roll

Postby Viajero » 21 October 2011, 08:36

Get the movement if he already has block, one of the reason most people dont take the tree on woodies is because he cant keep up with the action.
Ah ok, if the tree has Block already it s a sweet decission you are taking ;)

+MA is fine but also consider Pro!!!... it will allow you to reroll Roots. And failed stand ups. I.e. Pro is not as powerful as JU or +MA to stand up, but vastly superior to those two in preventing Roots (16.6% to root without Pro in any given turn; only 10% with Pro. Or put in a different way: any time you root, Pro will cancel it 41% of the time). Pro may also allow you the luxury of rerolling blocks if necessary! I once had a Block, Pro Tree... man was that fun.

On the Tree yay vs nay discussion I am firmly on the yay camp. It is true the Tree cant often keep up with the action in general, but:

1- I remember some statistics about average number of Wood Elf injuries per game, and how tree vs no tree affected those. From what I remember simply having the Tree at the LoS already reduced the average number of elf injuries (typically 3 or maybe 4 per game if lots of MB) in around 1 or 2 per game. Speaking from memory so no hard facts, you get the idea anyways. Powerfull.

2- Even if the Tree is far from the action often in defense, he is typically in the thick of it in offense or when you steal the ball in defense. Specially when it gets Guard. If your opponent decides to ignore it, the Tree just by virtue of simply "being there", creates a no-go 8 tile zone for your opponent and a safe zone for you that your elves can typically use as support in one way or another when attacking.
My general availability to start games is 20:00 - 21:30 GMT+1 during the week with some more flexibility on weekends.


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