Number of reserves?

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Yossarian
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Joined: 24 October 2011, 12:34

Number of reserves?

Postby Yossarian » 24 October 2011, 12:52

What is the general consensus on the optimal number of reserves for a team once it gets to the 1500-2000 TV mark? obviously excluding teams with very cheap (Zombies or Skeletons) or squishy (Snotlings, Goblins, Halflings) players.

Of course a starting or low TV team needs 11/12 players, but how much of a TV bloat would having, say 2/3 human linemen in reserve be, once your TV gets a bit higher?

Is this just a race specific thing, for example, being able to score with only 5 elves so they don't need reserves?

Thanks!

OmegaDestroyer
Posts: 156
Joined: 04 December 2009, 15:20

Re: Number of reserves?

Postby OmegaDestroyer » 24 October 2011, 13:31

I always try to keep at least 2 around. You never know who is going to be taken out as a casualty and sometimes a foul is too tempting to pass up.

In your Elf example, even if you can score with five of them, it doesn't mean they will survive an entire match. Better to be on the safe side.

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MattDakka
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Re: Number of reserves?

Postby MattDakka » 24 October 2011, 15:23

In a private league some reserves are generally good to take, but the TV matchmaking encourages people to extreme team optimization.
In theory, if you have more reserves you should have a team still efficient even after some CAS, but the problem is that, when you have reserves of an expensive team you bloat your TV and you could face teams with more skills than you and less reserves, but with a better effective potential on the pitch.
A bash team with high AV doesn't need as many reserves as an agile team, and compensates this with killer players, with the target of removing the opposing players.
The actual MM format in my opinion is not a good environment for teams with many reserves (due to the tight TV-pairing the teams with less but more skilled players are better than a larger but less skilled team), if the pairing format was different (for example by number of matches played) reserves could be a good idea.
Another thing that makes reserves less useful is the fouling nerf.
The top teams in FOL generally don't have many reserves, in order to keep TV low and to avoid SPPs spreading around too much on linemen, instead they tend to develop super efficient positional players, with a lot of skills.
This seem to be the most successful approach for a (lame, in my opinion) MM-pairing environment.
About your question, you should specify the team, elf and high av teams tend to have few reserves (1-2), Khemri, Undead, Necro teams can afford (2-3) reserves because they have cheap linemen.
With amazons, norse, humans, undead, necro, khemri I try to ever bring 13-14 players, they are pretty cheap, linemen with dirty player can be useful.
With stunty teams I want all the 16 players.
With elves I have 12-13 players, if I can afford them without bloating too much my TV (less than 1750).
The number of reserves is close related to the kind of the team you are using.
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Last edited by MattDakka on 24 October 2011, 17:27, edited 1 time in total.
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Managarn
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Joined: 02 October 2009, 05:26

Re: Number of reserves?

Postby Managarn » 24 October 2011, 16:01

13-14 is usually the sweetspot for most team.

13 if your adventurous and dont foul much and 14 if your foul happy.

Yossarian
Posts: 4
Joined: 24 October 2011, 12:34

Re: Number of reserves?

Postby Yossarian » 24 October 2011, 18:16

So, yet another reason why every team in match-making is Orcs, and yet another reason why I play in a private league.

I suppose there is a kind of fun to had in this extreme optimization of team value, but I am a little tired of it.

Its interesting that the number of reserves being cut in MM is a symptom of this TV saving in the same way as people always taking the same skills on players to optimize performance. The result of which is that all players and teams become the same, and there's definitely no fun in that :(

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dode74
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Re: Number of reserves?

Postby dode74 » 24 October 2011, 18:57

You have hit the nail on the head with one of the major issues with TV-based MM. Matching by a games played-based algorithm would be far better, imo.
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MattDakka
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Joined: 20 July 2009, 03:03

Re: Number of reserves?

Postby MattDakka » 24 October 2011, 22:41

So, yet another reason why every team in match-making is Orcs, and yet another reason why I play in a private league.

I suppose there is a kind of fun to had in this extreme optimization of team value, but I am a little tired of it.

Its interesting that the number of reserves being cut in MM is a symptom of this TV saving in the same way as people always taking the same skills on players to optimize performance. The result of which is that all players and teams become the same, and there's definitely no fun in that :(
Orcs are quite a common team in MM but they are not the only team, your words would be more accurate if you were talking of BB1, but BBLE has more variety.
I agree with the rest of your post, the problem lies in the MM TV-pairing system.
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Yossarian
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Joined: 24 October 2011, 12:34

Re: Number of reserves?

Postby Yossarian » 24 October 2011, 23:37

Orcs are quite a common team in MM but they are not the only team, your words would be more accurate if you were talking of BB1, but BBLE has more variety.
I agree with the rest of your post, the problem lies in the MM TV-pairing system.
I have hardly played on Nag at all since BBLE came out, maybe it was just bad luck when I was on! nice to know there's a bit more variety these days. Thanks for the reply :D

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MattDakka
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Re: Number of reserves?

Postby MattDakka » 25 October 2011, 00:41

Orcs are quite a common team in MM but they are not the only team, your words would be more accurate if you were talking of BB1, but BBLE has more variety.
I agree with the rest of your post, the problem lies in the MM TV-pairing system.
I have hardly played on Nag at all since BBLE came out, maybe it was just bad luck when I was on! nice to know there's a bit more variety these days. Thanks for the reply :D
You told that you play just in private leagues, but If you want to have a go and play some MM I suggest you to join FOL, the Forum Open League. It has proper spiralling expenses and it's policed by admins.
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HC-Vanselow
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Re: Number of reserves?

Postby HC-Vanselow » 25 October 2011, 05:44

:) With Halflings (Guttsburgh Grey Gooses) = 16
:mrgreen: With Goblins (Killwhackee Schmucks) = 16
;) With Dwarves (Mt. Mikilenberg 51ers) = 13
:twisted: With Skaven (Orinokoe Rambling Rats) = 12
:lol: With Nurgle (Filthsburgh Virus) = 12
:geek: With Lizardmen (Ayauhteotl Komodos) = 15
8-) With Amazons (Balthazaar Bay Valentines) = 12 (I'm juggling getting another linewoman).


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