Leader

Your rosters, your strategies, advice, etc.
LloydsGamble
Posts: 119
Joined: 25 October 2011, 08:18

Leader

Postby LloydsGamble » 26 April 2013, 07:34

Just curious how many people use this skill. I know its fairly popular in online matchmaking, but I haven't used it myself.

I'm also curious if you use your Leader player both halves. Most players will swap their Thrower for a linemen (perhaps their kicker) on defense, but if you have Leader on your Thrower I presume you'd want to keep him on for both halves, or am I wrong?

I think the skill has value, I'd just be put off having to use my Thrower on both drives.

whater
Posts: 214
Joined: 19 July 2009, 10:40

Re: Leader

Postby whater » 26 April 2013, 09:46

I personally don't take it myself. It puts a big "kill me" sign on the guy. If you injure the guy in the first half, you don't get the re-roll in the second half. Leader is used as the first re-roll. So if there is a score during a half, you could swap him out.

However some of it depends on the type of team you are using (re-roll cost is different per a team). And the type of skill access that team has.

Normally I could suggest much better skills. I have seen several teams that are trying to min/max TV, use this skill on a Thrower class, and have one less re-roll.

Iniyari
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Joined: 10 July 2009, 10:28

Re: Leader

Postby Iniyari » 02 August 2013, 15:55

I put Leader on my WoE Thrower, not right away, but often after he's thrown 31 passes and has still failed to roll doubles. I play for points--8 TDs is a flawless game!--so my Thrower is always on the field. I agree that people want to try to take him down, but you keep him back, your cage breakers get him the ball, and he sails that 12-square pass from the safety of his backfield.

I believe TotalBiscuit refers to it as "Elven Bullsh&t". ;P

Get Leader, but only if you can put it on someone who isn't responsible for making tackles or being on the line: Dwarven Runners, Elven/Human/Orc/Amazon Throwers, whichever rando you've been leveling to be your passer on Khorne/Chaos/Nurgle. Don't give it to someone with whom you'd like to actually score. Leaders don't score: they facilitate scoring.

Regardless of what team you play, it's the cheapest reroll you'll ever have, and Halfthing Brewmaster inducements CAN'T TAKE IT AWAY.

*Edited for spelling

crimsonsun
Posts: 43
Joined: 25 July 2012, 04:46

Re: Leader

Postby crimsonsun » 02 August 2013, 16:26

Its really a personal Taste thing, for me I can see its use in MM where TV min/maxing is so much more important, but in a perpetual league enviroment just by a re-roll and use the level for a skill to make the player better in the role that is his purpose.

Either way I do not use Leader at all, players have 6 possible skills and I am not going to waste one on something I can add to my team without its spp cost and I am a Khemri coach who not only has obscenely priced reroll's but players that can grab it for 20k though its still not as good as a skill IMO. As for using a double to take Leader, well as far as I am concerned that is utter madness - I cannot think of a player in any team in which there are at least 3-5 better options for there development that will be used more than once per half, or provide compensation for a weakness in your team.

A WoE thrower as described in the below example would in my opinion have on non double rolls - block, dodge, side step, Fend, Accurate, Nerves of Steel, Dump Off, Jump Up as all FAR FAR better choices, with sure feet, sprint, tackle, diving tackle being arguable on the right team... Thats 12 basic choices all better than leader which would save a whooping 30k of tv?? Seriously? That less than half a line elf....

Crimsonsun
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whater
Posts: 214
Joined: 19 July 2009, 10:40

Re: Leader

Postby whater » 02 August 2013, 20:30

Its really a personal Taste thing, for me I can see its use in MM where TV min/maxing is so much more important, but in a perpetual league enviroment just by a re-roll and use the level for a skill to make the player better in the role that is his purpose.

Either way I do not use Leader at all, players have 6 possible skills and I am not going to waste one on something I can add to my team without its spp cost and I am a Khemri coach who not only has obscenely priced reroll's but players that can grab it for 20k though its still not as good as a skill IMO. As for using a double to take Leader, well as far as I am concerned that is utter madness - I cannot think of a player in any team in which there are at least 3-5 better options for there development that will be used more than once per half, or provide compensation for a weakness in your team.

A WoE thrower as described in the below example would in my opinion have on non double rolls - block, dodge, side step, Fend, Accurate, Nerves of Steel, Dump Off, Jump Up as all FAR FAR better choices, with sure feet, sprint, tackle, diving tackle being arguable on the right team... Thats 12 basic choices all better than leader which would save a whooping 30k of tv?? Seriously? That less than half a line elf....

Crimsonsun
Sound logic. I have the same mentality with Kick Return. To me, it's a skill to save you for a tiny little moment, then after that, I'd prefer a persistent skill.

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HC-Vanselow
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Re: Leader

Postby HC-Vanselow » 02 August 2013, 21:26

:? Never considered the benefits of "Leader" too heavily before until I got it on Wen-Amun Harakhte of the Sacred Mekhta Kings (Khemri) who is the squad's Thro-Ra. I generally use it for rerolling pivotal game breaking blocks for the Tomb Guardians without "Block".

Nodi
Posts: 219
Joined: 03 October 2009, 19:12

Re: Leader

Postby Nodi » 03 August 2013, 07:18

Well I think you miss calculate the skill crimsonsun. The skill cost 20k for a normal level-up which save you 3(0) TV for worse (not counting the money it saves). It replaces a Team Reroll which cost 50k at least at the creation of the team (and cost 5(0) in TV) and would cost at least 100k money if bought after creation.
And many teams have their TRR costing 70k, you could save 50k (or 120k money) by buying it !
The money you save is really a good point in non-MM leagues (you often have to buy players).

Of course, as a first skill of a thrower for example it's not a good choice imo.
You talked about many personnal reroll you would have taken on these players, if it's on your ball handler would you really risk many of these actions per half ?
Generally not (especially when you hold the ball), you make it once and then a Team ReRoll more is perfectly legit. Plus the TeamReRoll can be used for every player, not only the owner.
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whater
Posts: 214
Joined: 19 July 2009, 10:40

Re: Leader

Postby whater » 07 August 2013, 00:09

Well I think you miss calculate the skill crimsonsun. The skill cost 20k for a normal level-up which save you 3(0) TV for worse (not counting the money it saves). It replaces a Team Reroll which cost 50k at least at the creation of the team (and cost 5(0) in TV) and would cost at least 100k money if bought after creation.
And many teams have their TRR costing 70k, you could save 50k (or 120k money) by buying it !
The money you save is really a good point in non-MM leagues (you often have to buy players).

Of course, as a first skill of a thrower for example it's not a good choice imo.
You talked about many personal reroll you would have taken on these players, if it's on your ball handler would you really risk many of these actions per half ?
Generally not (especially when you hold the ball), you make it once and then a Team ReRoll more is perfectly legit. Plus the TeamReRoll can be used for every player, not only the owner.
- The buying cost for a re-roll is an extremely minor thing for almost every teams after creation (maybe an issue in a short term league or on AV7 teams).

- Anyone with Leader has a giant "hit me" sign on their head (just like people with Kick). If you knock them out in the first half, then no extra re-roll in the 2nd half.

TV wise
It can make sense to give Leader to someone who has passing access as a regular roll. But if you have to use a doubles on it, most people would prefer to take Guard or Dodge, Side Step type of skills on a doubles.
- If you are using a regular roll to take Leader. There might be better skills to take, to further assist as them a designated passer (pass, accurate, NoS) or ball carrier (sure hands, Fend, dodge).
- However the Pit Fighter on the Daemons of Khorne, it totally makes sense to me to take Leader on one of them. As they are considered the "linemen" unit. And many people prefer to use one of their Bloodletters are a ball carrier/pass (due to not having Frenzy on them (putting the ball out of position).

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Darkson
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Re: Leader

Postby Darkson » 07 August 2013, 08:01

Seeing as I don't use throwers to pass the ball as a rule, leader is ideal for them.
Rather the 20k TV than 50k+ for an additional reroll.
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Nodi
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Joined: 03 October 2009, 19:12

Re: Leader

Postby Nodi » 07 August 2013, 08:21

Did you read what I wrote ?
The money you save is really a good point in non-MM leagues (you often have to buy players).
- The buying cost for a re-roll is an extremely minor thing for almost every teams after creation (maybe an issue in a short term league or on AV7 teams).
+
Of course, as a first skill of a thrower for example it's not a good choice imo.
...
You talked about many personal reroll you would have taken on these players, if it's on your ball handler would you really risk many of these actions per half ?
Generally not (especially when you hold the ball), you make it once and then a Team ReRoll more is perfectly legit. Plus the TeamReRoll can be used for every player, not only the owner.
TV wise
It can make sense to give Leader to someone who has passing access as a regular roll.
- If you are using a regular roll to take Leader. There might be better skills to take, to further assist as them a designated passer (pass, accurate, NoS) or ball carrier (sure hands, Fend, dodge).
Additional note, this skill count for a dodge/reception/pass/sure hand or any personnal reroll skill your players might lack for the critical action (ball action).
How many times do you use dodge on the ball handler by half ? or pass ? or reception for all other players ?
If you take these skills, it's a level up you might never use for an entire game <- waste.
But if you have to use a doubles on it, most people would prefer to take Guard or Dodge, Side Step type of skills on a doubles.

- However the Pit Fighter on the Daemons of Khorne, it totally makes sense to me to take Leader on one of them. As they are considered the "linemen" unit. And many people prefer to use one of their Bloodletters are a ball carrier/pass (due to not having Frenzy on them (putting the ball out of position).

- Anyone with Leader has a giant "hit me" sign on their head (just like people with Kick). If you knock them out in the first half, then no extra re-roll in the 2nd half.
Do you really intend to put this skill on a blocker or on a lineman ? :shock:
Do you put your ball handler/thrower on the LOS ? :o
Last edited by Nodi on 08 August 2013, 21:30, edited 1 time in total.
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