Lizardman Tactics, Strategies and Builds

Your rosters, your strategies, advice, etc.
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Darkson
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Re: Lizardman Tactics, Strategies and Builds

Postby Darkson » 10 February 2013, 09:10

You're correct. This is the problem with a large number of strategy posts on this forum - they're geared towards MM-only without making that clear. Big difference in TV matched games vs league play, especially if that player goes on to tabletop leagues.
Galak 3:16 says "There is a point in time that a player really should read the rulebook."
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Nope, I was talking about a 0TTD on a Blitz! using TTM.

whater
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Re: Lizardman Tactics, Strategies and Builds

Postby whater » 13 February 2013, 12:08

I would have cut the guy. +AGIL is not worth the bloat. Also he is sorta a liability being only 2STR.

I've mentioned this in another thread, and really, it's probably all the same people reading it so this may be unnecessary, but whatever - I had my best Norse lineman fouler take a -str injury (he was DP and Sneaky git as far as skills at the time) and I decided i'd keep him since he left the pitch on a caught foul more often than not, and thus the -str wasn't the end of his "normal" use. Well he rolled a +AG on his next level, so now in addition to fouling, he can be an emergency ball hander or just use that extra AG to dodge into the backfield and stomp on some dude that was normally out of reach. In LEAGUE play I don't mind carrying some dead weight, because inducements very very rarely work out to equal the amount of TV they are replacing, to much fail involved with them.

Smashly
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Re: Lizardman Tactics, Strategies and Builds

Postby Smashly » 07 March 2013, 23:21

Anyone know of any good starting formations? the images on page 1 are gone.


kudroil
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Re: Lizardman Tactics, Strategies and Builds

Postby kudroil » 19 March 2013, 19:40

Lizards are my favorite BB team, but they aren't perfect, I find that they are a very offense-oriented team.

OFFENSE TACTICS

A passing game (as said) will never materialize with the Lizards, but I find them particularly suited for the ground attack: Krox and Saurii with Block will hold a cage reliably with relatively few assists. This is good, because despite all the ST4, with a lot of ground to cover (and only skinks to fill the gaps), a Lizardman marriage to the Chaos/Dwarf caging bash can't forever last.

My typical starting build is 5 Saurus + 6 Skink with 4 rerolls. Skink attrition is the big factor without an apothecary, but with the end goal of having 4-5 starting Skinks, there is afforded some room to lose a couple in this way. With a 6 Skink build, they should be used to assist and deny movement with TZ aggressively, to get favorable rolls for Saurus players, as these must not fall. Most RR will be burned on Saurus blocks, and minimizing Saurus retaliation and creating space is the key to setting up a Liz attack. Injured skink are line-fodder. Krox's and Skinks that don't get a double by rank 4 should be cut to alleviate headroom.

With 3 big hitters on the line, the ideal cage holds a Skink ball-carrier, with Saurii up front and a loose cloud of Skinks behind to deny any flanking attacks. My typical offensive plays are counter runs, a lateral run which takes advantage of Saurus being rather autonomous at ST4 and overall high mobility. Moving the ball laterally is usually preferable to grinding it out up the pitch, seeking favorable matchups with relatively few uskilled linemen and isolated ST4 brutes.

The first cage is usually set near the LoS at the hashmark, formed on whichever side fares better in the initial blocking. Saurus and skink on the near flank pull in to form the cage.

Holes along the sideline should push a skink (ideally with escort) to set up a handoff-TD. A blitzing Saurus can make the distance to clear a TZ out front, and then its a handoff-and-dodge to the goal. If this is not possible, skinks can find temporary respite in the safety of the backfield. On the opposite flank, Saurus seek knockdowns (with skink assists) to clear space as the defense dwindles. With a wide front and exposed near flank, this strategy reaches critical mass on the cage rather quickly as an intentional consequence. As the defense on the opposing side thins to pressure the cage, deep threat, and the LoS, hits to free Saurus for mobility become priority. Like a pitch play in American football, free Saurus pull guard and blitz the opposite flank, rapidly reforming a cage near the opposite sideline. A dense shell of Saurus and Skink forms to be all but impenetrable, for a breakaway dash to the endzone next turn. The counter may need extra space on the sideline if Frenzy is prevalent on defense, but I find I suffer less push-out here than with any other team.

In one turn, the bulk of the defense is on the wrong side of the pitch. Attention is invariably diverted from entroaching skinks to reform an attack on the new cage, as any Liz that didn't pull is now immediately an isolated, deep threat.

Running the counter, I typically seek to score early with Lizardman. The kick-and-chase game on a short quarter defense is somewhat preferred to a grind out defense. Second half you'll likely be down a Saurus, and loathe to deny an equalizer. Much preferred to make a short kick, bait the equalizer, and punish. Most every game I win with Liz, I'm up 2-0 at the half. Second half kick it deep, avoid fouls, and win 2-1.

Favorable blitzes on the flank can also open up a 2-turn strike with a quick cage around a Skink. The Liz's best tactic is to rapidly form temporary cages that will invariably hold for one turn and not two. If it does, any roaming Saurus will feast on ST3 targets. Concentrated efforts to bring TZs on the ball will often fall short, and a zone defense in front of your cage is exactly what you want to see late in the first half.

DEFENSE

Liz's weak suit is defense, in the sense that if they are to win they must spend the minority of their time doing it. Defense-appropriate skills are hard for Liz to acquire. I use typical backfield-denial formations and attempt to blitz the cage the instant it forms in all cases. 2 skinks can neuter all TZs, and a Saurus can bring a 2D block against the ball carrier at the first opening. Any difficulty handling the ball by the opposition must be quickly punished. Should a solid cage form, or should elves get some downfield players, it can be difficult for so few Saurii to cover all threats. I find elves (Wood Elves especially) to be Liz's weakest matchup. Skink dodging is some of the easiest rolling you can make, and attempting a pickup (burn that RR) and darting away from the action is a preferable delay tactic to grinding the box while losing Saurii to bash or losing safeties to receiver pushing.

Late game ties see Lizards at a disadvantage, as I'd rather be Skaven or Elf than Skink here. The "blitz-a-skink" bait with a deep bench can be a boon for Liz, since it's really Saurus that are key to digging out the ball and keeping it safe. So long as the skink bench is deep, this bait should always be offered with a cloud of skinks broadcasting TZs and deep threats waiting to receive a handoff. You'll win in the second half 2-1 with 4 Saurii and 2 Skinks up, but not with 2 Saurii and 4 Skink... they need to triple up in isolation to reliably block.

Kicking off? You're looking to end the half 0-0, or preferably, 1-1. Lizardmen prefer that both teams score quickly. Punish backfield shenanigans with a Saurus safety and fouling skinks. A player advantage second-half is extremely desirable. Standard policy here, target the expensive players and make them howl for holding the ball longer than necessary. A Chaos Warrior, blitzer, or Wardancer is best dealt with via boot-to-the-face from a Sneaky Git. In general, preserving life and limb takes priority over air-tight coverage.

POSTGAME

First three purchases are obviously Krox / Saurus / Apoth, in whatever order you prefer. +ST is good anywhere, and I'll take +MV on anyone but Krox. Liz is never skill-abundant so +AV is never taken, and +AG is great for a Skink but otherwise won't make up the difference.

Skink agility skills come in whatever order you like, though I think Side Step is best for deep threats. 1 Catch is good to make sure the deep threat gets the ball.

Saurus and Krox get block, then the usual suspects (guard, dodge, tackle, diving tackle, frenzy). -STAT players are dirty players until they need to be cut. Broken skink are relegated to assist duty at the LoS.

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Aegis J Hyena
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Re: Lizardman Tactics, Strategies and Builds

Postby Aegis J Hyena » 20 March 2013, 05:07

[quote="kudroil"]First three purchases are obviously Krox / Saurus / Apoth, in whatever order you prefer. +ST is good anywhere, and I'll take +MV on anyone but Krox. Liz is never skill-abundant so +AV is never taken, and +AG is great for a Skink but otherwise won't make up the difference.[/quote

Screw that, A Krox that has the MV of a Gutter Runner if they get lucky? Yes please! Though Block/Break Tackle would certainly trump MV otherwise. And yeah, I'll take my chances with the bonehead.
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kudroil
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Re: Lizardman Tactics, Strategies and Builds

Postby kudroil » 22 March 2013, 14:45

Could be, but for me its hard to reconcile Krox's line duty with a +MV. The fact is, Saurus are way too valuable for Liz, and any unit that lets you commit one less of them to the LoS is ultimately its best use.

On defense, Lizardmen are great on the kick-and-chase game. You have to make sure that ball lands in bounds. I find in MM a lot of inexperienced Nurg/Chaos/CD/Khem players don't quite grasp the importance of keeping Lizardmen out of the backfield on reception, and I've won many a game blitzing open a 3-tile wide hole and capitalizing on the ball-handling trouble of these races. Packing on 4 rerolls makes the scoop-dodge-score on turn 2 happen much more often than my opponent would like. Against Lizardman, ball security on the backfield takes priority. You need 2 tackle zones on the ball, minimum, when attempting a pickup, otherwise my Sure Feet skink is going to spoil your dinner. Does my LoS take beatings against these teams? Oh yes, terrible beatings. I usually end with a MNG'd Saurus. The LoS isn't where Lizardmen win.

Lizardmen aren't a passing team, but the cage is moving 6-8 spaces a turn in some direction. Playing a loose defense makes it tough to capitalize on Liz's weaknesses (lack of blocking skills). The moment the defense shows a gap, the ball's moving 16+ squares. Score big, scrape your Saurus off the pitch and go home with $50k and the win.

JimmyFantastic
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Re: Lizardman Tactics, Strategies and Builds

Postby JimmyFantastic » 22 March 2013, 20:07

Can't believe someone is advocating starting with less than the full compliment of strong boys.
It is essential to start with all 7 and you have a hard time if even one of them is removed from the pitch.
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selfy_74
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Re: Lizardman Tactics, Strategies and Builds

Postby selfy_74 » 23 March 2013, 17:19

I can believe it and fair play to him, I rather like it. :D

whater
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Re: Lizardman Tactics, Strategies and Builds

Postby whater » 22 April 2013, 08:44

Usually I cut Skinks after they reach level 3 if they haven't rolled doubles/stat.

What are the most common skills you guys take for their first two regular rolls ?

SIDE STEP:
I find I usually take Side Step as their first skill. Hoping I can make the Skink into a super star, then this skill can protect him.

DIVING TACKLE
This along with Side Step can make the Skink into a good defensive player. Just to provide Tackle Zones nightmare. I don't think I would want to take this as the first skill though. What happens if I roll a +stat, then I'm wasting super star stats on a defensive only player.

JUMP UP
Makes "wack a skink" slightly less attractive.

SNEAKY GIT
I'd prob take this as his first skill. Just for the lower TV, and if he fouls out it's less TV out of the game.


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