Lizardman Tactics, Strategies and Builds

Your rosters, your strategies, advice, etc.
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ghmongo
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Location: Louisville, KY, USA

Re: Lizardman Tactics, Strategies and Builds

Postby ghmongo » 30 October 2011, 23:01

If it was simply a case of their good luck or your bad luck, then why even post the strategy? I could talk about my ball-handling Troll and win a bunch of games by never failing Stupid rolls or anything else, but that wouldn't count for anything any more than taking five Sauri out of the play by making them into ball handlers or cage ends.

If you're trying to say that using a Saurus to handle the ball is "good coaching" then I have already said why it's not. And I have to assume that's what you were aiming for when you posted this:
On offense, he would cage the ball with his Krox/Sauruses, and then he would field the ball with a Saurus, using RR's if necessary.
and this:
Once the ball was in his Saurus' hands, the offense was unstoppable
It doesn't take a genius to figure out how to stall a cage, especially against Lizards when they choose to form the cage with their strongest players. 4 high-ST cage pieces plus another high-ST ball handler leaves a maximum of two high-ST players (and from what you described, four ST2 players with Loner) to actually get out there and hit things.

If you're trying to tell me that you couldn't overpower two Sauri and four Skinks with your entire defense, than I can't help but wonder how you ended up playing against that and losing. You didn't mention anything about abnormally bad rolls in your first post in this thread.

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crunknasty
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Joined: 11 September 2011, 22:38

Re: Lizardman Tactics, Strategies and Builds

Postby crunknasty » 31 October 2011, 01:11

If it was simply a case of their good luck or your bad luck, then why even post the strategy? I could talk about my ball-handling Troll and win a bunch of games by never failing Stupid rolls or anything else, but that wouldn't count for anything any more than taking five Sauri out of the play by making them into ball handlers or cage ends.

If you're trying to say that using a Saurus to handle the ball is "good coaching" then I have already said why it's not. And I have to assume that's what you were aiming for when you posted this:
On offense, he would cage the ball with his Krox/Sauruses, and then he would field the ball with a Saurus, using RR's if necessary.
and this:
Once the ball was in his Saurus' hands, the offense was unstoppable
It doesn't take a genius to figure out how to stall a cage, especially against Lizards when they choose to form the cage with their strongest players. 4 high-ST cage pieces plus another high-ST ball handler leaves a maximum of two high-ST players (and from what you described, four ST2 players with Loner) to actually get out there and hit things.

If you're trying to tell me that you couldn't overpower two Sauri and four Skinks with your entire defense, than I can't help but wonder how you ended up playing against that and losing. You didn't mention anything about abnormally bad rolls in your first post in this thread.
I think you must have missed the part where I mentioned that each Saurus and the Krox had five skills a piece. How, exactly, do suggest busting a cage full of seven players with Guard, Block, Mighty Blow, Tackle, and Stand Firm? With my Blodging Dark Elf Bliter? Yeah. Right.

Hate on the strat all day, but it works. I watched it work. I'm experienced enough of a coach to know when a game is won by luck, and this wasn't such a game. Those Lizardmen ate my Elves one at a time like they were Sunday dinner.

I keep saying the same thing, and you parry with a "you suck" defense. At least I know how to present an argument. I'm not going to repeat myself again. This conversation is over.

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ghmongo
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Location: Louisville, KY, USA

Re: Lizardman Tactics, Strategies and Builds

Postby ghmongo » 31 October 2011, 02:24

Hate on the strat all day, but it works. I watched it work. I'm experienced enough of a coach to know when a game is won by luck, and this wasn't such a game. Those Lizardmen ate my Elves one at a time like they were Sunday dinner.

I keep saying the same thing, and you parry with a "you suck" defense. At least I know how to present an argument. I'm not going to repeat myself again. This conversation is over.
You sound awfully defensive for an "experienced" coach.

As a Lizard coach I can tell you that their worst matchup by far is Elves. Any kind of Elves. All those skills you listed are fine and dandy, but the two that apply to Elves are Break Tackle and Tackle - neither of which you mentioned. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure out that Sauri without Break Tackle can't dodge away, nor can they get through a zone without blitzing. They have to mark your players, meaning you can call up and push back, or simply dodge out of trouble. Seriously, that's basic stuff.

Lizards work most effectively when they can spread and control as much of the field as possible - which caging with Sauri doesn't accomplish. In fact, it's entirely counterproductive. The simple truth is that Lizards should struggle against Elves if the Elf coach knows how to play defense. Evidently in this case you didn't know how to play defense, so a bad Lizard strat beat you, and you felt the need to proclaim it as some sort of "awesome strategy". I can guarantee you that strategy doesn't work against a zone defense barring incredibly lopsided dice rolls.

Bottom line: learn to play defense and bush-league tactics like Saurus cages with Saurus ball-handlers won't beat you. End of story.
How, exactly, do suggest busting a cage
There's your issue, if you didn't get it the first three times I tried to point it out to you.

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crunknasty
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Re: Lizardman Tactics, Strategies and Builds

Postby crunknasty » 31 October 2011, 05:57


As a Lizard coach I can tell you that their worst matchup by far is Elves. Any kind of Elves. All those skills you listed are fine and dandy, but the two that apply to Elves are Break Tackle and Tackle - neither of which you mentioned.
I think you must have missed the part where I mentioned that each Saurus and the Krox had five skills a piece. How, exactly, do suggest busting a cage full of seven players with Guard, Block, Mighty Blow, Tackle, and Stand Firm? With my Blodging Dark Elf Bliter? Yeah. Right.
Remember what I mentioned about having to repeat myself every time I respond? Consider my case rested.

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ghmongo
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Location: Louisville, KY, USA

Re: Lizardman Tactics, Strategies and Builds

Postby ghmongo » 31 October 2011, 13:41

"Oh no, they all have Tackle! What so ever will I do? I don't want to hurt my precious elves! I guess any team that gets Tackle will automatically negate my AG4 and higher MA to keep them from being able to break through my zone and stop me from zoning them out and slowing their offensive tempo to a crawl while five of their strongest players stay completely away from engaging the defense.

All you have done is reaffirmed my belief that you lost to that strategy because of poor coaching decisions.

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crunknasty
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Re: Lizardman Tactics, Strategies and Builds

Postby crunknasty » 31 October 2011, 16:39

You sound awfully defensive for an "experienced" coach.

archdevil942
Posts: 39
Joined: 10 October 2011, 14:02

Re: Lizardman Tactics, Strategies and Builds

Postby archdevil942 » 31 October 2011, 19:52

im gonna have to agree with ghumongo as an experienced lizardmen coach my toughest enemys are dark elves and you have to be very careful when you move a cage of lizardmen up the field so if you tie em up you should be able to stop them on their tracks or bliz the ball carrier
also have you ever heard of a football techniqe called force running? basicly you use your enemys to make a path for the opponents runner to run with and at the end of that path a linebacker stands ready to take down the killer i used force running many times in blood bowl and its a great defensive techniqe and i think that against the lizardmen it works wonders

LloydsGamble
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Joined: 25 October 2011, 08:18

Re: Lizardman Tactics, Strategies and Builds

Postby LloydsGamble » 01 November 2011, 21:05

The Skinks were entirely disposable. In fact, most of them were mercs that he never bothered to purchase.
While I would agree with the others that tying up 5 Sauri in a conventional cage is a waste, I actually think taking advantage of journeymen skinks would work quite well. Not at his stage of development though, only early on.

My thinking is that as the Krox and Saur's take a while to skill up, keeping the TV as low as possible, so as to encounter less developed teams would work in their favour. Against other fresh or near-fresh teams, you have a better chance of winning and encountering less opponents with block, which would make throwing a few blocks safer and hence increase the chances of cas spp.

During this time, you would be saving up for an extra re-roll or two. If you lost a skink or two in the first few games, you would not replace them and would instead rely on journeymen. This still leaves you with 2 reliable skinks, to handle the ball. The loners would be used as screening players, mobile assists, foulers etc. I probably wouldn't go over the 2 journeymen though, a single reliable skink would be pushing your luck. If you did though, you could always buy the journeymen who gained spp if you so wished.

In this way you could keep the TV value low while the Sauri picked up at least block and possibly another skill. By this time you will have bought any other re-rolls you need and can now hire new skinks. This will increase your TV but you would now be better prepared to face other teams of this level.

If somehow you were lucky enough to lose no skinks early on, firing any who didn't recieve a double would probably be the best idea.

Obviously this depends a lot on your ability on the pitch and whether you are comfortable playing with 2-3 journeymen, but it could be a way to negate the early skill advantage other teams have, to some extent and in some ways, make the little guys deaths advantageous. :)

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ghmongo
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Location: Louisville, KY, USA

Re: Lizardman Tactics, Strategies and Builds

Postby ghmongo » 01 November 2011, 21:56

That strategy works in theory... until you need a Journeyman Skink to make a pick-up and he fails the Loner roll. Or until one of your Journeymen wins MVP... again.

TV hedging should not be put ahead of giving yourself the best chance of winning the game.

LloydsGamble
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Joined: 25 October 2011, 08:18

Re: Lizardman Tactics, Strategies and Builds

Postby LloydsGamble » 02 November 2011, 00:15

Is Leader a viable skill on a skink who rolls doubles in a new team?

I know there's a lot of other options, and it would put a target on his head, but it might make all the difference in the first few games.


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