Lizardman Tactics, Strategies and Builds

Your rosters, your strategies, advice, etc.
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MILLANDSON
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Lizardman Tactics, Strategies and Builds

Postby MILLANDSON » 02 October 2011, 07:02

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archdevil942
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Re: Lizardman Tactics, Strategies and Builds

Postby archdevil942 » 10 October 2011, 14:53

hello lizardman waas my first team and i played quite alot with it in auld world im not saying that i am an expert but i know quite a lot about the lizzies and i would like to share what i know.

first of all pros and cons:
pros:6 sauruses with high and strengh good skill acces thats alot of power and with the sauruses you can deal with most power teams also they have good speed so once you release the saurus from hes ties he can quickly go ahead and bliz that ball carrier sauruses make great linebackers. skinks are some of the fastest players in the game with 8 movement per turn and 3 agility+stunty and dodge they can easly cover any reciever with ease making agility teams alot less risky they are your safeties and your cornerbacks as well as your corner backs and can also provide assists for your fellow sauruses.
the kroxigor is my faivorit big guy and is definetly one of the best with pesuasive tail you can have one hell of a linebacker even tho he suffers from all the usual big guy cons he is still very usable bone head is not that hugh of a flaw and while it always is dangerous its not that dangerous i had many games in which the bone head ability wasnt activated at all/ the lizardman team can bash up nice and safe thanks to its sauruses\kroxi but it can also make a 2 turn touchdown with handoffs making them quite a versityle team when it comes to running the ball.

cons:first of all the con that is imao the most critical con for lizard man team and that is the skill acces of your skinks as they can only get agility skills that means that you will have to pray for doubles also sauruses are very easy to tie up and as their job is to protect the stunty little skinks they wont always be able to resulting in heavy casualties also your sauruses begin with no skills whatsoever making it a difficult team for new players as they will most likely lose a couple of times in their first few games until the sauruses get block also lizardman cant pass you have to rely soely on your running game and the running game isnt always enough making them a rather predictible team at times.

beginning builds
my faivorite basic build is the following
6 sauruses
1 kroxigor
4 skinks
2 rerolls
1 ff
i will explain:with this build u get to begin with a fair ammount of rerolls as well as every positional player on your team the lack of apothecary may seem extreme to some peaple and this build is truly very risky with only 2 rerolls playing will get frustrating and remaking the team a couple of times will be necesary but all your slow leveling players are here from the beginning so it will take less time to get to the higher tv where lizardman are truly ferocious.

another more popular build is the following
6 saurus
5 skinks
2 re rolls
1 apothecary
i will explain:this build is more stable than the other one as this one starts with an apothecary as well as a big guy thus its easier to use even tho with 1 less shield ur skinks have less protection makin git harder to protect the kinks.

player development:first of all sauruses there are a couple of diffrent roles for a saurus as theya re ur lineman as well as your blizers these are my builds

line lizard:block,guard, mighty blod,stand firm for doubles i would take dodge asz it helps to keep you on your feet tho sauruses dont realy need doubles that much
bliz lizard:block tackle\strip ball,break tackle,mighty blow,guard for doubles dodge can help as a good combination with break tackle also if you get a double you can take jump up and than iling on to make a killer lizard
for stat ups +av isnt all that needed as you have 9 av and 4 str to begin with so it wont realy be needed that much +srt is always a bless as u have a big guy on your team +agility is a tough choice as some pelapl are lucky enough to get 2+agility ups and than they make a saurus ball carrier and while that is a good idea in theory i dont like it as if you do that you take a saurus out of what he does best (hitting the opposition) so i wouldnt take that as a skill +movement allowance is good only for your blizers in my opinion even tho as a first skill i would prefer block over it

skinks:your skinks are meant to handle the ball and run but they also make great elf\skaven counters so i would get at least 2 of them for defence while the rest can be offensive skinks even tho if you get a double for one of your defensive skinks give him sure hands and make him an offensive skinks as sure hands is a skill lizards need badly.
defensive skink:diving tackle,jump up,side step doubles:sure hands!!!!!!!!, block
offensive skink:sure feet,sprint,catch doubles sure hands!!!!!!!!!!,block
as for stat ups skins should take everything they can get as +av can help staying on the field with +agility u get an unstobable dodger with+movement allowance you get a gutter runner and with+str you make ur skink alot more bashy and with +str he can actualy help you bash

krixigor:your kroxigor is the player that your opponent will hate the most in your team as he is an amazing player with great str and persuasive tail i think a kroxigors mobility is hes greatest weapon so i would take break tackle as your first skill unless i get a double in which case i would take block after break tackle come the obvious suspects such as guard and juggetnaut
when it comes to stat ups i think a kroxi needs only the str up

offensive tactics:the first and obvious tactic of the lizardman is the cage put a skink in the middle a bunch of sauruses around him and some sauruses\kroxi to protect the cage while the other skinks give conftrable assists when you get a touchback always give the ball to the saurus as they need the spp quite badly from my excperience with the lizards a one sided drive works perfectly asyour lizard man can quickly join the other side while living the opponent behind u can offcourse use the 2-1 grind even tho the lizardman have yet another great tactic a lightning fast attack and it works like thisget your two blizing sauruses to 2 diffrent places and move them forward giving space behing them to your skinks to hide in
usualy one in the middle 1 on the left side and 1 for the right side while the fourth skinks stays behind to recieve the ball
the opponent will than have 2 choices 1 cover than back 2 bliz u have to make sure he blizes u make sure he does that by giving him little holes on purpose to bait him to come get your skink and once he does ur skink will dodge all enemys and hand off to the skink whos side is mist succesful the sknink can than run straight to the endzone this techniqe works wonders against slower bashier teams as they will take some time reaching from one side to the other tho it is quite risky so i wouldnt use it all the time

defensive tactics: basicly your main job on difense is to make sure ur sauruses dont get tied up ur saurses are perfect for man to man defense techniqes and u should use ur skinks to untie your sauruses while the sauruses bliz the cage and bring it down while if the opposition tries to dodge\pass your skinks will be there to take him down and get the ball.

i hope i helped please help me correct the spelling mistakes and good luck playing the lizards!

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MILLANDSON
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Re: Lizardman Tactics, Strategies and Builds

Postby MILLANDSON » 15 October 2011, 01:00

GENERAL KALE'S GUIDE TO LIZARDMAN STRATEGY


WHY SHOULD I CHOOSE LIZARDMEN?

At first glance, the Lizardman roster looks like the blueprint for a perfect BB team. No other team can offer you their unique combination of strength and speed, and in the right hands,Lizardmen can be a nightmare to play against. With 6 Saurus and 1 Kroxigor, Lizards can have more ST 4+ players than any other race in BB, and with 6 MV, a Saurus has much greater mobility than his friend the Black Orc. Behind that imposing front line are the Skinks, who are some of the most mobile players in the game. With 8 MV, they can cover a lot of territory in a hurry, and with Dodge and Stunty, they can blow through tackle zones and into the opposition backfield in the blink of an eye. That mammoth front line can withstand the rushing attack of Strength teams like Dwarfs and Orcs, while the Skinks can track down Catchers and Gutter Runners loose behind your line. Like I said, a perfect BB team, right?


WHY SHOULD I NOT CHOOSE LIZARDMEN?

Despite their initial appearance, Lizardmen have some significant drawbacks. A lineup full of ST 4 monsters and MV 8 roadrunners sounds great, but Lizards start with a distinct lack of skills. Nobody starts with block, and nobody starts with Sure Hands, which is a recipe for burning through Team Re-Rolls and suffering turnovers. Not only are they skill-deprived as a starting team, those skills can be hard to come by as the team advances. Your big, bruising Sauruses will skill slowly, because players who rely on casualties take longer to advance than players who can score the occasional touchdown.

The most serious limitation to Lizardman teams is a lack of ballhandling ability. Skinks are limited to Agility skills, which is a MAJOR drawback; bread-and-butter skills like Block and Sure Hands can only be taken on doubles. And though Skinks make excellent receivers, Stunty and a lack of access to passing skills make them terrible throwers, which rules out any hope of a reliable aerial attack. This means that, though their combination of speed and power is an imposing one, Lizardmen have a rather one-dimensional quality on offense. Add it all up, and Lizardmen aren't necessarily the juggernaut that you might expect them to be at first glance.


TEAM BUILDS

Given the aforementioned lack of skills, and the problems that can cause, I'd recommend a minimum of 3 re-rolls when building a Lizardman team. That being said, here are a couple of different starting lineups.

OPTION 1

5 Saurus 400
6 Skink 360
3 RR 180
1 Apothecary 50
1 FF 10

If I were starting a Lizarman team, this is the build I would use. 5 Sauruses are sufficient to give you an imposing defensive front, and the apothecary will almost certainly come in handy, what with your Skinks having AV 7 and Stunty. Alternately, you could drop the Apothecary and the FF and start with 7 Skinks; having 12 players is never a bad option. You should be able to add your 6th Saurus after 2 games, followed by either another Skink or your Kroxigor, depending on how quickly you're earning money and whether or not you need to replace any dead Lizards.

OPTION 2

6 Saurus 480
5 Skink 300
3 RR 180
4 FF4 40

Similar to option 1, this roster maxes out on Sauruses to present a slightly beefier lineup. If this build is more to your liking, consider dumping some FF and banking some cash. If you stash the 40k, you're guaranteed to have enough dough for either an apothecary or another Skink after your first game.

OPTION 3

6 Saurus 480
6 Skink 360
2 RR 120
4 FF 40

OPTION 4

5 Saurus 400
7 Skink 420
2 RR 120
1 Apothecary 50
1 FF 10

As I said, I don't think 2 RR is enough, but these two builds will let you start with 12 players. When I'm building a team, I like to try and spend all of my available cash without buying FF; in my opinion, it lets you field the best possible team for your money. With that in mind, I find option 4 more appealing than 3. With either of these teams, I'd make my first purchase a 3rd RR.

BIG GUY OPTION

1 Kroxigor 140
6 Saurus 480
4 Skink 240
2 RR 120
2 FF 20

Though I'm already on record as saying that I'm not a fan of Big Guys, and that 2 RR isn't enough, this is definitely the most intimidating lineup you can field, and it's quite an intriguing build. If you're going to start with only 2 RR, this might be the best team to field; the Kroxigor's Prehensile Tail is great to have against agility teams, and his 6 MV makes him more mobile than Ogres or Trolls. Bear in mind that this team only has 4 players with any hope of handling the ball, and your opponent is most definitely going to be hunting those players (more on "Blitz-a-Skink" later).


LIZARDMAN OFFENSE

As I said, Lizardmen aren't built for passing, so they're married to the rushing attack (If you don't believe me when I say that Lizards shouldn't pass, consider this: an elf completes a Quick Pass on a 2, and a Skink needs a 4. I hope that is a clear enough indication of why Lizardmen can't rely on a passing attack. You want to throw the ball? Don't play Lizards). That being said, Lizardmen have more speed at their disposal than the rest of the running-reliant teams. This means that they can choose between employing a quick-strike offense, much like Skaven or Elves, or grinding it out like Dwarf or Chaos teams. In my experience, Lizardman teams favour a more conservative approach, so once you do get possession of the ball, don't do anything risky with it unless it's as a last resort. Don't make a handoff unless it's absolutely necessary, and remember, unless you've got catch, you're more likely to succeed on a dodge than you are on a hand-off.

If a quick TD is needed, punch a hole in the opposition line and get a couple of Skinks into scoring range. Spread them out a little, and send a Saurus with them if you can. Advance the ballcarrier as far forward as possible without leaving him exposed. As long as you get more than one Skink downfield, your opponent will only be able to blitz one of them, which will leave you with at least one still standing. After that, all you need to do is throw a couple of blocks, make one hand-off (or a pass if you havn't been listening to me), maybe a dodge or two, and you're in the endzone.

If you aren't in a hurry to push the ball downfield, Lizardmen are well-suited for the more deliberate, methodical rushing attack. Six Sauruses and a Kroxigor can create a cage that can stand up against anyone, and once you've penetrated 3-4 squares into the opposition half, the Skink in the middle can break for the endzone whenever the opportunity presents itself. If running the clock down to score on Turn 8 is your plan, Lizards can do that as well as anyone. One last thing: on those occasions where your opponent kicks a touchback, consider giving the ball to a Saurus, especially against a team like Elves or Skaven. Despite being largely incapable of picking up or catching the ball, a Saurus has the ST and MV to be an steamroller of a fullback if he ever gets the ball in his hands. And if you do manage to get him into the endzone, he'll pick up some much-needed SPPs. Don't try it with your Kroxigor, though...Nuffle frowns upon such things, and I can guarantee that you'll fail that bonehead roll and ruin your chance to score just as you're ready to push for the goalline...


LIZARDMAN DEFENCE

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There are plenty of good defensive alignments out there, but I'd go with something like this. You want to minimize the possibility of your Skinks getting blitzed; if you're uncomfortable having all your players pushed forward, the other option would be to set your Skinks up far enough back that they're out of blitz range. Get your heavies forward and let them do as much damage as they're able to, and keep your Skinks back in the secondary unless you need to bring them forward to provide assists. Personally, I wouldn't worry too much about setting up a deep defense, even against a speed team, because your Skinks are easily mobile enough to get back and cover any Gutter Runners or Catchers that get through your front 7.

When you force turnovers, protecting the ball should be a higher priority than pushing it forward. If you can, form a cage around whoever recovered the ball and start your push downfield. I wouldn't recommend having a Skink cherry-picking down near your opponents' goalline unless you're into the second half and you need to gamble. Anyone you leave hanging around in the opposition backfield is most likely going to get squashed before he can be of any use to you anyway.

*EDIT - I had a request for defensive setups that didn't include the Kroxigor. Here are two more sample alignments; the one on the left is with 6 Sauruses, the one on the right with 5.

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GENERAL STRATEGIES

First of all, and I can't stress this enough, protect your Skinks. On a team full of ST 4 bruisers, your lightly-armoured Skinks may as well be wearing targets on their chests. If your opponent is a ruthless bastard who knows what he's doing, he'll be hitting your Skinks every chance he gets, which is where the so-called "Blitz-a-Skink mentality" comes from. Some people don't like this tactic, perhaps feeling like it isn't "sporting", but whether you like it or not, it's gonna happen, so you
better be ready for it. If your opponent rids the pitch of your Skinks, he completely neuters your offense, so don't expose them to any unnecessary punishment. Don't leave the other coach any blocks against your Skinks if you can help it. Make the most of your Stunty and Dodge, and run the little buggers away from the enemy every chance you get.

Make full use of your Kroxigor by getting him into the middle of every scrum, especially against agility teams. That prehensile tail can be the difference between giving up a touchdown and causing a turnover, so get him next to the ballcarrier whenever possible. Your Sauruses have the ST and AV to go head-to-head with just about anything, so don't be afraid to turn the game into a trench-fight, particularly if it looks like your opponent is trying to avoid that style of game. *EDIT - Be sure to make full use of the Kroxigor's assists BEFORE you make that bonehead roll. You can't fail it if you don't try it, so if you really need that assist or tackle zone, there might be times when it's better not to activate him at all.

On offense, I'd recommend keeping your extra Skinks behind the cage so that they can move up to provide timely assists to your Sauruses, and so that they're in good defensive position if everything goes horribly wrong and the opposition gets their hands on the ball. Pushing Skinks downfield can open up the option of a quick score as well as serving to draw defenders away from the cage, but be warned that unprotected Skinks are going to get blitzed, and possibly fouled. So unless you NEED to score quickly, keep 'em in your backfield, where they'll be (comparatively) safe.


ADVANCES

Skill selection is particularly important for Lizardman teams, because you don't start with any. Block is a must for all of your Sauruses, and the usual suspects like Mighty Blow and Guard are next on the list. You should have at least one with Tackle, one with Strip Ball, and one with Wrestle. On doubles, consider Dodge, to help keep the player on his feet. Break Tackle is a great choice for a 3rd-4th skill, because it will do wonders for your mobility on defense, and Piling On is a good choice for getting rid of the oppositions' skilled players.


You're limited to Agility skills on your Skinks, so pray for doubles. Catch is a good first choice, because it'll let you reroll failed hand-off attempts, and Side Step can get you out of sticky situations in traffic or along the sidelines. Sprint and Sure Feet is a tried-and-true combo, and Sneaky Git makes fouling a lot less risky. The only skill I'd recommend against is Leap, which I wouldn't take unless I had a Skink with an AG up, but aside from that, you'll find a use for all those Agility skills at one time or another, so try to have a good mix.

When you do hit doubles, get 2 Skinks with Sure Hands before you even think of taking anything else (and keep in mind that if you hit 5-5 or 6-6, you'll probably take the stat increase, so you're really only looking at a 1 in 9 chance to take those skills). After Sure hands is taken care of, you may be tempted to try and build a thrower, but I wouldn't recommend it (we've been over this, dammit!) I would consider Hail Mary Pass on doubles, though, and if you do take it, be sure you have a couple of Skinks with Diving Catch for some late-game heroics.


FINAL WORDS OF ADVICE

Be patient with your Lizardman team. If they look like a great choice at first, but then your new team doesn't perform as well as you'd hoped, understand that Lizards need to be developed before they're really imposing. As far as rookie teams go, I think that Lizardmen are like Chaos teams in that they're at a slight disadvantage at first, but that will change over time. You might take it on the chin in your first few matches, but once you've got a few Sauruses with Block and a Reserves Box full of extra Skinks, your team will be a force to be reckoned with.

- General Kale
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crunknasty
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Re: Lizardman Tactics, Strategies and Builds

Postby crunknasty » 30 October 2011, 15:52

I haven't played Lizardmen myself. They'll be the next team I try out, but I saw a coach use them in a way that blew my mind a couple of weeks back. On offense, he would cage the ball with his Krox/Sauruses, and then he would field the ball with a Saurus, using RR's if necessary. Once the ball was in his Saurus' hands, the offense was unstoppable, and the Saurus would level for scoring a TD.

The Skinks were entirely disposable. In fact, most of them were mercs that he never bothered to purchase. His team was ranked in the top 500, and I could see why, as every Saurus (and the Krox) had 5 or more skills. It was one of the most outside-the-box strategies I'd ever seen in BB, and it worked beautifully.

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ghmongo
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Re: Lizardman Tactics, Strategies and Builds

Postby ghmongo » 30 October 2011, 16:12

Playing like that is a recipe for disaster. "Caging" with Lizards means you have 2 players with ST4 (and 4 with ST2 - who evidently have zero skills and Loner) to engage the defense.

Sauri built for ball-handling are generally ineffective on defense. The offense as a whole moves more slowly and a ball handler who comes into contact with a defender can't dodge away. Without skills on Skinks, Elves become exponentially more difficult matchups. And if a Saurus gets hurt (or worse, MNG), your team is up a creek.

High rankings don't prove the effectiveness of a particular strategy. I wouldn't be surprised that the strategy worked if that coach faced off against nothing but Humans, Dorf and Norse.

archdevil942
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Joined: 10 October 2011, 14:02

Re: Lizardman Tactics, Strategies and Builds

Postby archdevil942 » 30 October 2011, 16:27

i tried the techniqe u are speaking off many times but i find that it is quite in effective as it relies on luck as it usualy takes 2\3 turns to pick up the ball unless ur lucky and after 2\3 turns if the opponent kicked well he can be up ur field also if you do that you remove one of your sauruses from bashing which is also bad in my opinion i agree tho that using skinks as disposables is quite a good tactic but considering their speed and their dodging abilities they are alot more suited for 3-1 surgical attacks

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crunknasty
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Re: Lizardman Tactics, Strategies and Builds

Postby crunknasty » 30 October 2011, 16:33

Playing like that is a recipe for disaster. "Caging" with Lizards means you have 2 players with ST4 (and 4 with ST2 - who evidently have zero skills and Loner) to engage the defense.

Sauri built for ball-handling are generally ineffective on defense. The offense as a whole moves more slowly and a ball handler who comes into contact with a defender can't dodge away. Without skills on Skinks, Elves become exponentially more difficult matchups. And if a Saurus gets hurt (or worse, MNG), your team is up a creek.

High rankings don't prove the effectiveness of a particular strategy. I wouldn't be surprised that the strategy worked if that coach faced off against nothing but Humans, Dorf and Norse.
Never said he built his Sauri with offensive skills. He just used them to score TDs, so that each one had Block, Guard, Mighty Blow, Tackle, etc.

His rank didn't prove the effectiveness of the strategy. The fact that he waltzed into my endzone three times and completely shut down my offense, however, did.

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MattDakka
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Re: Lizardman Tactics, Strategies and Builds

Postby MattDakka » 30 October 2011, 16:55

Playing like that is a recipe for disaster. "Caging" with Lizards means you have 2 players with ST4 (and 4 with ST2 - who evidently have zero skills and Loner) to engage the defense.

Sauri built for ball-handling are generally ineffective on defense. The offense as a whole moves more slowly and a ball handler who comes into contact with a defender can't dodge away. Without skills on Skinks, Elves become exponentially more difficult matchups. And if a Saurus gets hurt (or worse, MNG), your team is up a creek.

High rankings don't prove the effectiveness of a particular strategy. I wouldn't be surprised that the strategy worked if that coach faced off against nothing but Humans, Dorf and Norse.
Never said he built his Sauri with offensive skills. He just used them to score TDs, so that each one had Block, Guard, Mighty Blow, Tackle, etc.

His rank didn't prove the effectiveness of the strategy. The fact that he waltzed into my endzone three times and completely shut down my offense, however, did.
I agree with ghmongo, the strategy you described is not the most effective, yes, you can score with a Saurus (maybe with Break Tackle) but with more difficulties and risks. You could fail to pick up the ball losing too many turns, and when playing against teams which can exploit a failed pick up (elves, skaven) you could suffer a defensive TD.
I played without this strategy, and my Sauri are levelling well, even without scoring, I would score with a Saurus ONLY if doing so is not harmful and risky for my victory (i.e. if I'm already winning 2-0, for example, and no way that an eventual failed pick up may cause a dangerous turnover).
He defeated you, but one win doesn't prove anything, he should win consistently and regularly against a wide variety of opponents and teams in order for his strategy to be considered successful.
Last edited by MattDakka on 30 October 2011, 19:13, edited 1 time in total.
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ghmongo
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Re: Lizardman Tactics, Strategies and Builds

Postby ghmongo » 30 October 2011, 18:19

His rank didn't prove the effectiveness of the strategy. The fact that he waltzed into my endzone three times and completely shut down my offense, however, did.
Or it proved that he was exceptionally lucky on his dice rolls or that your defensive skills are rubbish.

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crunknasty
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Re: Lizardman Tactics, Strategies and Builds

Postby crunknasty » 30 October 2011, 20:16

His rank didn't prove the effectiveness of the strategy. The fact that he waltzed into my endzone three times and completely shut down my offense, however, did.
Or it proved that he was exceptionally lucky on his dice rolls or that your defensive skills are rubbish.
Which is where the rank reaffirms what I said. You don't get that high without consistently winning. Luck isn't consistent and neither are coaches with bad defense. Play long enough, and your luck runs out when you're playing a good coach. Such was the case with me, and several others I'm sure this dude has played against.

Nice try, though.


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