New Matchmaking System

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Itchen
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Re: New Matchmaking System

Postby Itchen » 15 October 2016, 19:26

Quite often when clicking Find an Opponent, I'm getting ''Your Opponent will be designated in 299 seconds''. Am I right in assuming that this means I'm the only coach searching for a match at that particular time and the 5 min matching period starts only when I start searching?

twitch/the_sage_bb
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Re: New Matchmaking System

Postby twitch/the_sage_bb » 15 October 2016, 23:56

Well, it means you're the first person to start spinning after the last round's matches have been made. However, in every 5 min interval, one of the coaches spinning will be the first. Suppose spins produce 3 matchups on average, that would mean you have a 1 in 6 chance of being the first of those coaches to arrive; this does not mean there isn't anyone else spinning for ages. =)
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TheSpydyr
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Re: New Matchmaking System

Postby TheSpydyr » 16 October 2016, 16:55

Well, it means you're the first person to start spinning after the last round's matches have been made.
This is the best explanation.
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The RNG is not broken, you are not "the unluckiest coach in the world" and the computer does not cheat, you just suck.

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Niessuh
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Re: New Matchmaking System

Postby Niessuh » 17 October 2016, 10:21

After using the TV + R * (W - L) formula for several months, what are your impressions? Could the R factor be reduced a bit so every team could find more evenly TV matched games? like R=25 instead of 50

randog242
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Re: New Matchmaking System

Postby randog242 » 01 December 2016, 03:58

Looks like no one has provided their thoughts, so let me give mine. I play in the open ladder once in awhile online, but mainly my friends and I play in our private league open ladder. We just pick the teams we are matching up against each other and, since we're the only two teams searching, we get matched. All the changes you've made have effectively ruined that. If we want to play 2000tv vs 1200tv or whatever else, that's our business, and it should be addressed. Make management tools so we can control how our private leagues run please. I am getting sick and tired of "wondering" if our teams will match. Also, I have seen some match ups that shouldn't have happened, based on your formulas, so even your "fix" is broken. I've been patiently waiting for months now for you to do this. Plenty of people have asked, but instead you focus your energies on further breaking the ranking system too.

I'm not active on this forum, but I do read it. One of the few people I agree with on the ranking and matchmaking topics is VoodooMike. Maybe you should listen to him. I would much prefer to go back to day 1 matchmaking and ranking than this current system.

licker34
Posts: 163
Joined: 09 March 2016, 17:40

Re: New Matchmaking System

Postby licker34 » 01 December 2016, 19:44

I am getting sick and tired of "wondering" if our teams will match.
You don't have to wonder though, if the TV difference is more than 500 then you won't match. TV+ has no bearing on that whatsoever. Unless they changed the cut off from 500TV to 500TV+.
Also, I have seen some match ups that shouldn't have happened, based on your formulas, so even your "fix" is broken. I've been patiently waiting for months now for you to do this. Plenty of people have asked, but instead you focus your energies on further breaking the ranking system too.
The people focusing their energies on breaking the ranking system are unpaid volunteers, so don't direct your ire at cyanide for that ;)

There is also the glitch where loners are not counting to the TV before the draw, so the 500TV rule doesn't always work in those cases. Else you need to understand that TV+ is just being used to set the matches, a match where the TV difference is over 500 is still rejected, though I don't know precisely the formula they are using to generate the matches, so it's possible even that isn't working correctly.
I'm not active on this forum, but I do read it. One of the few people I agree with on the ranking and matchmaking topics is VoodooMike. Maybe you should listen to him. I would much prefer to go back to day 1 matchmaking and ranking than this current system.
Day 1 matchmaking was even worse because of the way that it basically encouraged horrible TV mismatches. I don't think anyone, especially VM, was a fan of that system.

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VoodooMike
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Re: New Matchmaking System

Postby VoodooMike » 01 December 2016, 20:48

I would much prefer to go back to day 1 matchmaking and ranking than this current system.
For private league use I would too. The real issue there is that any time they make a change to accommodate open matchmaker play in COL, or CCL, they apply the change to EVERYWHERE. If they limited it to the specific open environment then that'd be fine... but they don't.
The people focusing their energies on breaking the ranking system are unpaid volunteers, so don't direct your ire at cyanide for that ;)
At the end of the day the final oversight for any alterations to anything falls on Cyanide and Focus. It's fine that they let dode make up ranking formulas, but if he screws the pooch on them there's still the question of why it made it past the people who are actually in charge. Does nobody care enough to scrutinize what's being done?

As for broken matches... the majority of matches that are being made that violate the stated design of the system are the result of the journeyman glitch... and that's been around a while now. Fixing that is entirely on Cyanide.
Day 1 matchmaking was even worse because of the way that it basically encouraged horrible TV mismatches. I don't think anyone, especially VM, was a fan of that system.
You're talking about applying it to COL. He's talking about how it limits him and his friends in their private league. So, you're both right about what I think, you're just not talking about the same thing.

In terms of COL the use of TVPlus for matchmaking is better than just using TV, but it's not LOTS better. To be lots better it'd need to be used for calculating inducements, too.

In terms of private leagues TVPlus shouldn't be applied in any way without the league's consent... the same is true of TV difference limits... but they are. For private leagues things were better before either one was implemented globally simply to suit COL.
Friendly Reminder: Correlation does not equal Causation - tattoo it on the inside of your eyelids if it'll help.

licker34
Posts: 163
Joined: 09 March 2016, 17:40

Re: New Matchmaking System

Postby licker34 » 01 December 2016, 21:46

The people focusing their energies on breaking the ranking system are unpaid volunteers, so don't direct your ire at cyanide for that ;)
At the end of the day the final oversight for any alterations to anything falls on Cyanide and Focus. It's fine that they let dode make up ranking formulas, but if he screws the pooch on them there's still the question of why it made it past the people who are actually in charge. Does nobody care enough to scrutinize what's being done?
Probably not, but that's why they aren't focusing their energies on it. What they are focusing their energies on is anyones guess. One imagines it is getting the next DLC ready. Hopefully it's not about implementing BB2016 rules, at least not yet, unless cyainde has access to all the unreleased DZ materials.
As for broken matches... the majority of matches that are being made that violate the stated design of the system are the result of the journeyman glitch... and that's been around a while now. Fixing that is entirely on Cyanide.
Indeed, it's odd that they had fixed it once upon a time only for it to show up again.
Day 1 matchmaking was even worse because of the way that it basically encouraged horrible TV mismatches. I don't think anyone, especially VM, was a fan of that system.
You're talking about applying it to COL. He's talking about how it limits him and his friends in their private league. So, you're both right about what I think, you're just not talking about the same thing.
True.
In terms of COL the use of TVPlus for matchmaking is better than just using TV, but it's not LOTS better. To be lots better it'd need to be used for calculating inducements, too.
To be better at making 'even' matches, but not to be better at selecting 'more' even matches. It's arguable that it's actually any better, but that depends on what the criteria for 'better' are. It may actually create more unbalanced TV matches than the other system for example, but I would imagine the spread of zSums in any draw probably washes that out.
In terms of private leagues TVPlus shouldn't be applied in any way without the league's consent... the same is true of TV difference limits... but they are. For private leagues things were better before either one was implemented globally simply to suit COL.
For certain leagues. Not sure it's as global as that, but how many private leagues actually use a ladder in the first place? Still, cyanide needs to allow for the leagues to select their own MM system or settings.

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VoodooMike
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Re: New Matchmaking System

Postby VoodooMike » 01 December 2016, 22:12

To be better at making 'even' matches, but not to be better at selecting 'more' even matches.
The system makes all matches balanced at which point you can basically use any method or no method for matchmaking. If you want to minimize inducement use you'd use TVPlus rating for matchmaking too. You could use shoesize and it'd be fine, it just might lead to larger average inducement pools.
It's arguable that it's actually any better, but that depends on what the criteria for 'better' are.
Not arguable that it creates balanced matches... or even that we can use the definition we're using for balanced: that you start the match with an equal opportunity to win the match... that the match is not stacked against you from the start for any reason.
It may actually create more unbalanced TV matches than the other system for example, but I would imagine the spread of zSums in any draw probably washes that out.
Sure, it is almost certain to create matches with a larger average TV difference than matching by TV (almost by definition) but since the reason TV differences are an issue is that they represent unequal likelihood of positive outcomes, it doesn't matter. TVPlus makes TV difference no longer predictive of match outcome.
For certain leagues. Not sure it's as global as that, but how many private leagues actually use a ladder in the first place?
randog242's does. Mine does. My league doesn't use it the way COL uses it, we use it to arrange our challenge matches, or scheduled matches.
Friendly Reminder: Correlation does not equal Causation - tattoo it on the inside of your eyelids if it'll help.

deadmanreloaded
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Joined: 08 January 2017, 22:12

Re: New Matchmaking System

Postby deadmanreloaded » 13 January 2017, 22:39

i wanna know why my new team played its first game against someone 3 games in then my second game against someone 7 games strong with lvled up players that I cannot compete with changes have got to be made plus try getting a decent dice roll generator


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