New Matchmaking System

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dtbilek
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Re: New Matchmaking System

Postby dtbilek » 22 March 2016, 03:41

Oh, one more question that I think I know the answer to, but I think it would be safe to ask: Will the TV++ formula be used in the world cup qualifiers as well as in the open league?
I expect the answer is "yes" even though that seems insane to me and utterly defeats the purpose of the qualifier.

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Re: New Matchmaking System

Postby twitch/the_sage_bb » 22 March 2016, 07:55

Oh, one more question that I think I know the answer to, but I think it would be safe to ask: Will the TV++ formula be used in the world cup qualifiers as well as in the open league?
I expect the answer is "yes" even though that seems insane to me and utterly defeats the purpose of the qualifier.
I don't agree. Currently, many of the teams with X/0/0 wins played many of their matches vs TV1000 teams. Having a bigger pool of potential matchups, which biases against the winning teams playing down a lot in TV AND biases winning teams to play against eachother would make wins more meaningful, and would make >5 20/0/0 s less likely.
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Re: New Matchmaking System

Postby twitch/the_sage_bb » 22 March 2016, 07:58

The 2 minutes seems fine, 3 minutes might be better, 5 minutes is too long to wait.
You do understand that a 5 minute pool time does not mean you will have to wait 5 minutes every time, right?
Also, a game of bloodbowl takes an hour and a half. Activating with an average wait of 2.5 mins is less than 3% downtime between games. It basically only means you have time to take a piss and get a glass of water, you addict!
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Valcurdra
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Re: New Matchmaking System

Postby Valcurdra » 22 March 2016, 09:41

The 2 minutes seems fine, 3 minutes might be better, 5 minutes is too long to wait.
You do understand that a 5 minute pool time does not mean you will have to wait 5 minutes every time, right?
Also, a game of bloodbowl takes an hour and a half. Activating with an average wait of 2.5 mins is less than 3% downtime between games. It basically only means you have time to take a piss and get a glass of water, you addict!
Haha, I rarely play back to back games anymore, I'm more thinking if you set it to 5 min and miss out the first 2 rounds then that's 15 min for a game.

That actually sucks

Valcurdra
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Re: New Matchmaking System

Postby Valcurdra » 22 March 2016, 09:42

The 2 minutes seems fine, 3 minutes might be better, 5 minutes is too long to wait.
You do understand that a 5 minute pool time does not mean you will have to wait 5 minutes every time, right?
Nope I didn't know that. What does it mean then?

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Re: New Matchmaking System

Postby twitch/the_sage_bb » 22 March 2016, 09:49

You do understand that a 5 minute pool time does not mean you will have to wait 5 minutes every time, right?
Also, a game of bloodbowl takes an hour and a half. Activating with an average wait of 2.5 mins is less than 3% downtime between games. It basically only means you have time to take a piss and get a glass of water, you addict!
Haha, I rarely play back to back games anymore, I'm more thinking if you set it to 5 min and miss out the first 2 rounds then that's 15 min for a game.

That actually sucks
OK, the addict part may have been projection on my part. ;)

I see your reasoning, thanks for clarifying. However, remember that the longer a round is, the more teams will be in it, and the lower the chance is for each team that they are the one to miss out (assuming there's an odd total number in the first place). Suppose you get one or two coaches looking for a game per minute (and that you get an uneven total when the round is drawn), then you'd be looking at 3 teams in 2 mins, 5 in 4, and 7 in 5 mins, for instance. That would mean that in 2 mins, 33% miss out, in 4 mins, 20% miss out, and in 5 mins, 14% miss out (though I've rounded up for the 4 to 5 increment, but you get the point). The chance of being the one to miss out twice in a row is considerably larger with a 2 minute round, than it is with a 5 minute round. With 7 people in a round, the chance of missing out two in a row is lower than that of rolling snakes! =D

More importantly, the odds that the ones that do get matched are actually in a reasonable TV or TVPlus range from eachother gets far, far better with longer rounds. Less noobbashing, more fun matchups.
The 2 minutes seems fine, 3 minutes might be better, 5 minutes is too long to wait.
You do understand that a 5 minute pool time does not mean you will have to wait 5 minutes every time, right?
Nope I didn't know that. What does it mean then?
It simply means that if you start looking for a game, some time will usually have already passed since the readying round started. As a result, your waiting time would be 0-5 minutes, with an average of 2.5 mins. ;)
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dode74
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Re: New Matchmaking System

Postby dode74 » 22 March 2016, 09:56

The 2 minutes seems fine, 3 minutes might be better, 5 minutes is too long to wait.
You do understand that a 5 minute pool time does not mean you will have to wait 5 minutes every time, right?
Nope I didn't know that. What does it mean then?
Sage got it.

Basically it means that there is, under a 2 minute system, a draw at minute 2, 4, 6, 8 etc past the hour (e.g. 17:02, 17:04, 17:06 etc). If you activate your team at 3mins 30secs past the hour you will have a 30 sec wait; at 2mins 30sec it will be 1min 30. So under a 2min system the average wait would be 1min. Under a 5 minute system it would be at 5, 10, 15 etc past the hour, meaning that if you activated at 11mins you'd wait 4 minutes, but at 14mins you'd wait only 1 minute. On average you would wait 2mins 30sec. The only time you would be longer than 5mins is if you were the odd one left out of a draw - so there would need to be an odd number of coaches or you would have to be more than 2000TV++ away from the other coaches. Under those circumstances you are prioritized for the next draw. That makes the absolute max a 10min wait assuming your team is within 2000TV of any other coach looking for a match, and it would be rare you'd hit 10mins.
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Valcurdra
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Re: New Matchmaking System

Postby Valcurdra » 22 March 2016, 11:13


Also, a game of bloodbowl takes an hour and a half. Activating with an average wait of 2.5 mins is less than 3% downtime between games. It basically only means you have time to take a piss and get a glass of water, you addict!
Haha, I rarely play back to back games anymore, I'm more thinking if you set it to 5 min and miss out the first 2 rounds then that's 15 min for a game.

That actually sucks
OK, the addict part may have been projection on my part. ;)

I see your reasoning, thanks for clarifying. However, remember that the longer a round is, the more teams will be in it, and the lower the chance is for each team that they are the one to miss out (assuming there's an odd total number in the first place). Suppose you get one or two coaches looking for a game per minute (and that you get an uneven total when the round is drawn), then you'd be looking at 3 teams in 2 mins, 5 in 4, and 7 in 5 mins, for instance. That would mean that in 2 mins, 33% miss out, in 4 mins, 20% miss out, and in 5 mins, 14% miss out (though I've rounded up for the 4 to 5 increment, but you get the point). The chance of being the one to miss out twice in a row is considerably larger with a 2 minute round, than it is with a 5 minute round. With 7 people in a round, the chance of missing out two in a row is lower than that of rolling snakes! =D

More importantly, the odds that the ones that do get matched are actually in a reasonable TV or TVPlus range from eachother gets far, far better with longer rounds. Less noobbashing, more fun matchups.
You do understand that a 5 minute pool time does not mean you will have to wait 5 minutes every time, right?
Nope I didn't know that. What does it mean then?
It simply means that if you start looking for a game, some time will usually have already passed since the readying round started. As a result, your waiting time would be 0-5 minutes, with an average of 2.5 mins. ;)
Gotcha, thanks sage and dode for clarifying.

Your argument is pretty solid there for 5 minutes. Count me in your camp.

Either way I guess the main thing is average wait time and % of wait times over 10 minutes.

Use whatever length keeps those at a good level. My preference would be average of < 5min and less that 2% over 10 min.

They are promising to monitor and adjust as nessasary so hopefully the right balance is found.

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Re: New Matchmaking System

Postby twitch/the_sage_bb » 22 March 2016, 11:51

Under those circumstances you are prioritized for the next draw.
Ah right, I'd forgotten about that part, good point Dode. No snake eyes on the missing-out roll, then!
Either way I guess the main thing is average wait time and % of wait times over 10 minutes.
Use whatever length keeps those at a good level. My preference would be average of < 5min and less that 2% over 10 min.
Well, with a 5 min round you'd have an average wait time of something like 3 mins (2.5 + occasionally missing out), and 0% of over 10 mins (unless there are no 2 teams within 2 million TV of eachother, in which cas it's not an issue of the algorithm).
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Lembocha
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Re: New Matchmaking System

Postby Lembocha » 22 March 2016, 12:41

a new matchmaking system in ladder competitions
Will we have the option of desactivating TV++ in private ladder competitions? This is imho really important to adress.
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