End of Champion Ladder Season 3

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glasshammer
Posts: 17
Joined: 01 February 2017, 19:00

Re: End of Champion Ladder Season 3

Postby glasshammer » 15 February 2017, 01:48

Ok cool,

thanks for responding, again great work with the league set up good fun definitely got people playing in the cablevision league.

Glasshammer

Dymntd
Posts: 4
Joined: 08 November 2016, 20:57

Re: End of Champion Ladder Season 3

Postby Dymntd » 15 February 2017, 04:30

I may as well be the voice of opposition if noone else will.

Extending the ps4 season 3 end date is a poor fix. For anyone currently holding a playoff spot, playing blood bowl right now is a very risky proposition.

A bluescreen could put a coach at or over the limit for concessions. This affects Calciumcas holder of the second wild card spot currently and is at the limit.

Anyone with a narrow lead on their race would be taking a very real risk playing right now. Anyone trying to catch them has nothing to lose and is free to play as a result. This affects myself as I deleted my human team that was a lock before learning of the extension, to instead qualify with norse which has but a narrow lead.

This hurts players who are unable to participate in the extension of the league due to life issues that otherwise had the time leading up to the end date. This affects mellgo1d who is moving into a new home and has but a narrow lead with nurgle.


All in all, this favours players trying to catch up and punishes those trying to hold spots. And making the announcement so close to the original end date stuck in my craw so here I am.

Ponghines
Posts: 12
Joined: 14 February 2016, 08:07

Re: End of Champion Ladder Season 3

Postby Ponghines » 15 February 2017, 09:14

I agree with Dymntd.
I have a playoff spot for wood elves but there is a team close second with more than 10 concede wins.
I cannot play to improve my team because a blue screen loss could cost me the lead.
On the other hand the other coach can exploit the blue screen problem by playing more games hoping to get lucky. All he can risk is to go over the concede limit (he is at 8 now...) but it's still worth it as he invested in his team only a couple of days (20 games all played after the update!!) and as now he is actually out of playoffs anyway.
I'm not afraid of my spot (my team is really not so good for playoffs) but I think that this is really not in the spirit of the CLadder

gasolemall
Posts: 5
Joined: 31 January 2017, 12:48

Re: End of Champion Ladder Season 3

Postby gasolemall » 15 February 2017, 09:42

Hi guys,

I totally agree with Dymntd and Ponghines. If I rembember well, there was a week left of competition when this problem of the blue screen appeared. I know that there was still time left so somebody could have tried to qualify in a final effort but in my opinion, it's far more fair to close the ladder and play the playoffs with the teams that had made it with a fair competition system after two months of hard work than extend it and have a crazy gambling competition system.
I don't blame anybody, because these errors can happen and everybody makes mistakes but why don't we accept we have this problem, we close the ladder and then start the Champion Cup and the 4th season when everything is fixed and meanwhile let an open ladder open so everybody can play the new races
It's just my opinion...

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Netheos
Administrateur
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Joined: 15 January 2014, 10:11

Re: End of Champion Ladder Season 3

Postby Netheos » 15 February 2017, 10:10

We're discussing about a way to handle the impact of the blue screen issue on the ranking on PS4.

Concerning the fix in itself, we have a new version fixing the issue but we need to run some tests to make sure it didn't break anything else (it's common with a new version). We're doing our best to release the fix as soon as possible.

We'll keep you updated on both topics.
Focus Team

seriousjest
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Re: End of Champion Ladder Season 3

Postby seriousjest » 15 February 2017, 11:40

I may as well be the voice of opposition if noone else will.

Extending the ps4 season 3 end date is a poor fix. For anyone currently holding a playoff spot, playing blood bowl right now is a very risky proposition.

A bluescreen could put a coach at or over the limit for concessions. This affects Calciumcas holder of the second wild card spot currently and is at the limit.

Anyone with a narrow lead on their race would be taking a very real risk playing right now. Anyone trying to catch them has nothing to lose and is free to play as a result. This affects myself as I deleted my human team that was a lock before learning of the extension, to instead qualify with norse which has but a narrow lead.

This hurts players who are unable to participate in the extension of the league due to life issues that otherwise had the time leading up to the end date. This affects mellgo1d who is moving into a new home and has but a narrow lead with nurgle.


All in all, this favours players trying to catch up and punishes those trying to hold spots. And making the announcement so close to the original end date stuck in my craw so here I am.
First, let me say this: Cyanide/Focus was set to go forward with ending S3 as scheduled despite the blue screen issue. After discussing the issue amongst ourselves, the PS4 admins requested that we extend the S3 for PS4 and catch up to PC in S4 with a shortened season. Netheos and company granted our request, because we made the case that it was in the best interest of the PS4 Champion Ladder as a whole, as well as critical to preserving the integrity of the Champion Cup on PS4. So, to everyone, you can direct your gripes at the PS4 admins.

As you know, we are doing our best to do damage control on a bad situation beyond our control. When we set the date for end of S3, we did not foresee that a patch would be released that would persistently cause many coaches to involuntarily incur a significant number of concession losses due to blue screens. As a result of this patch, in the final couple of weeks of the season, the standings have become significantly affected by random system malfunctions that have decided a substantial number of matches based on a system error, not the merits of game play. Thus, we decided that qualifying coaches for the Cup based on the current standings would de-legitimize the Cup and the Champion much more so than some of our other alternatives.

Again, we recognize that none of our options are great; they are the best of a bad situation. We also knew that, whatever we chose to do, some coaches would be unhappy, as an alternative course could have put them into the Cup.

Those of you who have dealt with Sam, Preach, and I should know by now that we value fair play and sportsmanship above all, and we hope that you trust that, when we are making decisions, we are doing so with the best interests and the integrity of the Champion Cup in mind. We don't get paid for doing this, but we have put in countless hours to try to build this competition from the ground up. We are trying our best not to let it get torn apart by an unfortunate circumstance beyond our control.

All of the above being said, the current intent is to extend the season until 1 week after the patch is fixed. That will give coaches some extra time to make final pushes for the playoffs blue-screen free. We realize it's not all the time in the world. We realize the timing may negatively affect some individual coaches. But it's the best we can do under the circumstances.

Dymntd, you know I respect you as a coach and I like you as a person. However, since this issue was raised, I feel the need to address it now, not to single you or any other coach out (in fact, a significant portion of the following does not apply to you), but to address a misguided attitude that has been festering amongst coaches in the CLadder.

As we have pointed out time and time again, we protect sportsmanship and fair play in the Champion Ladder and Cup. In its purest form, a coach creates a team and plays them through their ups and downs. He doesn't make his decision on what race to play based on who else is taking what. He doesn't sit on records. He doesn't concede games to "preserve" his team because he has a few to give before his concession limit is busted. When he runs out of concedes, he doesn't line his players up in a wide zone as a sign of surrender and let the other coach do whatever he wants to "preserve" his team and not incur the concede. When he wants to mix-it up and get some variety, he creates multiple teams to play; but he doesn't wait until the end of the season and delete the team that he believes is least advantageous to skirt the rule that says you're supposed to play with your highest-ranked team. And then, after a pure, fun season, we take the highest-ranked team of each race and 2 wild cards, put them in a Cup, and let them continue their rise to excellence.

We realize that many of the things I mentioned in the previous paragraph happen. In a competitive effort, some coaches try to "game the game." Frankly, we do not police most of this behavior, because, although it is not really in the spirit of the competition, it would be too impractical or subjective to police. However, please don't think for a second that we will protect the ability of coaches to "game the game."

Last season, a coach deleted his higher-ranked team an hour before S2 ended, altering the makeup of which coaches qualified for the Cup. We didn't stop it because it wasn't technically against the rules, and we didn't want to get into the loaded questions of when is too late to delete your team, how do we enforce it, etc. However, I do remember warning coaches in advance that, if they engaged in that type of behavior, they were taking a risk. This year, you did the same thing, but it may end up burning you. I'm sorry, but we are not going to consider your decision to delete your team as a reason not to postpone the season and allow another week for coaches to play blue-screen free.
PS4 Champion Cup co-admin, co-host of "Live from the ManCave!!!," and your favorite Blood Bowl coach's favorite Blood Bowl coach

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triperis
Posts: 26
Joined: 06 January 2017, 06:31

Re: End of Champion Ladder Season 3

Postby triperis » 15 February 2017, 12:07

Let's just realize, whatever decision is, somebody is screwed anyways. This was a disappointing season end, whether one qualified or not.

However, if admins want to promote a certain way to play, they do need to look into scoring formula. Because it was never designed to promote the listed things (I have read reasoning for formula being what it is in all seasons).

Want people not sitting on records? E.g., fix them at certain point. E.g. only your record at first 20 games counts. You can play for fun and build up the team however you like after, just without penalty or encouragement. Helps to avoid two coaches with similar points playing only one game at a time to minimize risk of losing the lead.

Want people not rerolling non-stop? Allow only 1-2 entries per race and/or max number of team entries altogether.

These are not necessarily good suggestions but examples how you can use rules of tournament to promote certain behavior. And makes you realize people sitting on records, rerolling and such is not because they are dirty people, but they look at rules and see that they are meant to play so by design.

All the current formula does is sorts the table in a way some teams of *last* season to be higher or lower. Some saturation point exists where one should stop playing games and that's that. It completely ignores real life scenarios happening. All the pieces involved need to work in cohesion, not just have people working in different related areas implementing their own thing.

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Niessuh
Posts: 84
Joined: 27 November 2015, 10:01

Re: End of Champion Ladder Season 3

Postby Niessuh » 15 February 2017, 14:02

No, I got what you meant. It would mean expanding from 16 to 32 teams and an extra week of playoffs. What I was saying (not very clearly!) is we don't want the playoffs lasting longer than the season itself. The admin team need to discuss it though. If it changes we will be sure to let people know.
Maybe the later playoff stages (semi/final) could be shortened in time, as there are less teams to play every round

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CalciumCas
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Re: End of Champion Ladder Season 3

Postby CalciumCas » 15 February 2017, 15:18

I was shafted with 4 concessions on the bounce and haven't played since, I was 8th before this happened...glad to have a wild card spot but will feel a bit hard done by if I miss out.
The most dangerous coach in BB history and PS4 great white shark https://www.twitch.tv/calciumcas
Season VII bluescreen tally : 2 (1 in a finals game!)

Thebeerbear
Posts: 23
Joined: 25 October 2016, 13:34

Re: End of Champion Ladder Season 3

Postby Thebeerbear » 15 February 2017, 16:16

So you had 4 blue screens.
You get 8 disconnects Calcium so you should be fine, as long as you wasn't rage quiting games prior to this when you got a few injuries ... :)

Also Jest, we knew its a rubbish situation and we appreciate the hard work mate.


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