AI teams and spiraling cost

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Khorne Kowboy
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AI teams and spiraling cost

Postby Khorne Kowboy » 20 March 2017, 16:53

Can any1 tell me why AI teams don't have 2 pay spiraling costs in a computer generated AI league? I believe this to be unfair and would like to see this changed in the future.

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Darkson
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Re: AI teams and spiraling cost

Postby Darkson » 20 March 2017, 17:37

Because AI teams suck and need all the help they can get?
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VoodooMike
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Re: AI teams and spiraling cost

Postby VoodooMike » 20 March 2017, 18:33

Can any1 tell me why AI teams don't have 2 pay spiraling costs in a computer generated AI league? I believe this to be unfair and would like to see this changed in the future.
Given that spiraling expenses has been removed from the official BB rules (at least, the default rules) I'd say we should absolutely be hoping to see that changed... to nobody having them. They were a pretty dumb idea right from the get go.

That said, the AI teams don't know how to spend gold and the last thing they need is more problems... and if you're having trouble with the AI teams to the point of wanting them to have more disadvantages, imagine if they added in them spending their treasury to get more inducements..
Friendly Reminder: Correlation does not equal Causation - tattoo it on the inside of your eyelids if it'll help.

JimmyFantastic
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Re: AI teams and spiraling cost

Postby JimmyFantastic » 22 March 2017, 08:19

They were a pretty dumb idea right from the get go.
Got any data to back that up?
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Last edited by JimmyFantastic on 22 March 2017, 10:38, edited 1 time in total.
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Fashbinder
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Re: AI teams and spiraling cost

Postby Fashbinder » 22 March 2017, 10:14


Got any data to back that up?

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Niessuh
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Re: AI teams and spiraling cost

Postby Niessuh » 22 March 2017, 10:59

Finally, a "constructive" debate :mrgreen:

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CalciumCas
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Re: AI teams and spiraling cost

Postby CalciumCas » 22 March 2017, 11:35


Got any data to back that up?

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VoodooMike
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Re: AI teams and spiraling cost

Postby VoodooMike » 22 March 2017, 11:52

Got any data to back that up?
It's an opinion, not a fact, so nothing indisputable. If you want to know why I hold that opinion, however, I can give you my data-driven reasons ;)

The purpose of spiraling expenses was, ostensibly, to prevent teams from developing too much over time... and it did so by making it increasingly difficult to maintain a treasury as your TV gets too high, thereby making it tougher to replace lost players. The idea being that eventually you won't be able to maintain your high TV and will take losses that bring your TV down into the desired range.

So, it's another mechanic that relies on attrition to do its job... and we know from the data that attrition affects some teams more than others - namely that it is harder on agility than bash. Spiraling expenses thus is a softer cap on bash teams than agility teams, which already have an easier time gaining and maintaining development.

If the rate of attrition were equal across the rosters (equal but not non-existent - this is not the usual pitch for rez) then it'd be fine to let bash teams develop higher than agility teams as it might compensate a bit for their lower win rates. The attrition rates are not equal, so it's a dumb mechanic that serves to further hold down agility teams in longer-term play.

BB2016/17's redrafting and expensive mistakes is a more consistent and even system. Redrafting still favours bash in that bash players tend to be less expensive than agility players, but it does represent a firmer and more equal limit on TV.
Friendly Reminder: Correlation does not equal Causation - tattoo it on the inside of your eyelids if it'll help.

Khorne Kowboy
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Re: AI teams and spiraling cost

Postby Khorne Kowboy » 22 March 2017, 16:10

Can any1 tell me why AI teams don't have 2 pay spiraling costs in a computer generated AI league? I believe this to be unfair and would like to see this changed in the future.
Given that spiraling expenses has been removed from the official BB rules (at least, the default rules) I'd say we should absolutely be hoping to see that changed... to nobody having them. They were a pretty dumb idea right from the get go.

That said, the AI teams don't know how to spend gold and the last thing they need is more problems... and if you're having trouble with the AI teams to the point of wanting them to have more disadvantages, imagine if they added in them spending their treasury to get more inducements..
Disadvantages? really how do you see that? I see that has having a huge advantage especially coupled with the fact that it seems the AI teams generate far more players with double rolls for leveling up players than does the 'real' team. It's not about having trouble with AI teams, its about what's fair. Shouldn't matter if its an AI league, I have to manage my team within the constraints of the rules so should the AI teams.

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VoodooMike
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Re: AI teams and spiraling cost

Postby VoodooMike » 23 March 2017, 20:20

Disadvantages? really how do you see that? I see that has having a huge advantage especially coupled with the fact that it seems the AI teams generate far more players with double rolls for leveling up players than does the 'real' team.
Being incompetent is an insurmountable disadvantage that trumps almost any perceived advantage. The AI is incompetent and loses to any human player that understands the fundamentals of the game (I don't mean "the rules" I mean the fundamentals of how to properly play the game).

I suspect the issue is you don't yet understand the fundamentals of how to play the game and thus believe that the disparity in raw statistics is what is causing you to have problems against the AI. I can assure you, without malice, that the issue is one of understanding.. almost exclusively.
It's not about having trouble with AI teams, its about what's fair.
So if you always win against the AI you still consider it unfair to you if their stats seem better or they have more gold? Those are some pretty serious white people problems you've got. ;)
Shouldn't matter if its an AI league, I have to manage my team within the constraints of the rules so should the AI teams.
In a perfect world I'd agree with you... if the AI were at least competent at playing BB then we'd want parity in team development too. Back in BB1 they acknowledged the terrible limitations of the AI and upped the raw statistics of AI teams to try to extend the shelf-life of solo play slightly, but people still routinely kicked it's ass using all-snotling teams.

All I can suggest to you is that you read some of the basic strategy guides available on the net and learn the fundamentals of the game. As soon as you understand them and they "click" for you, it'll be like a light switch and you will be like a hot knife cutting through the butter that is the AI.
Friendly Reminder: Correlation does not equal Causation - tattoo it on the inside of your eyelids if it'll help.


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