Amazing Video here, very relevant to Bloodbowl!

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dode74
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Re: Amazing Video here, very relevant to Bloodbowl!

Postby dode74 » 30 May 2017, 18:01

I think perhaps you focused on the bit I didn't intend for you to. Allow me to rephrase:
  • What we're really saying is "this team had the best season by this measure" rather than "this is the best team by this measure".
My point is that it is actual, rather than potential, performance which we are interested in, hence the lack of desire to even try to factor out luck.
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Ducke
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Re: Amazing Video here, very relevant to Bloodbowl!

Postby Ducke » 30 May 2017, 18:07

Skill is not a big enough deciding factor of succes as far as qualifying is concerned...
If you truly believe that then you have no real dog in the fight as to how the qualifications are done.

How is it not entirely up to personal opinion in this case? there are things in the current system that makes skill less of a factor than it could be. How big a problem that is entirely up to the individual. Also what is the dog about and what am not getting? Please explain why i dont have a dog in this discussion rather than just being rude.

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VoodooMike
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Re: Amazing Video here, very relevant to Bloodbowl!

Postby VoodooMike » 30 May 2017, 18:36

I think perhaps you focused on the bit I didn't intend for you to.
Damn that free will and its inconvenient ramifications!
My point is that it is actual, rather than potential, performance which we are interested in, hence the lack of desire to even try to factor out luck.
Well, in terms of calculated potential, it is potential being calculated based on their current actual performance while factoring in the uncertainty. You see these as separate concepts... I do not. I do, however, think it goes beyond what the playerbase could handle, intellectually, and thus think it's best we just stick with what is.
How is it not entirely up to personal opinion in this case?
Our opinions don't decide how things will be done... other people's opinions do. How well you can support and justify your opinion being valid is how you change the opinions of the people who do make those decisions.
there are things in the current system that makes skill less of a factor than it could be.
That's a bit of an empty declaration without elaboration. Do you care to elaborate? I mean.. it's hard to discuss concepts that are left unspoken.
Also what is the dog about and what am not getting? Please explain why i dont have a dog in this discussion rather than just being rude.
The way you made your statement you seemed to be implying that there isn't any situation in which skill will be important enough in the qualification process... if that's the case then you'll never believe ANY system is going to represent skill, and thus, seem to be implying picking random qualifiers is as good as using any other system.

Again, if you want to elaborate on what you're saying then that'd be awesome. Short, vague statements will always get a rude reply from me... but I'm totally open to hearing you out if you want to get into the dirty details of what you're trying to imply. Plus, y'know, that wasn't a rude reply to begin with... not on the mike scale anyway ;)

PS: To whomever is messing with the forum CSS settings.. stop that. The lack of spacing between quotes and text is ugly.
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JimmyFantastic
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Re: Amazing Video here, very relevant to Bloodbowl!

Postby JimmyFantastic » 30 May 2017, 21:24

I actually didn't think this vid was anything to do with TV+. Guess VoodooMike just has a bee in his bonnet for some reason.
Cyanide/Focus have been tailoring BB2 towards the tournament scene with the Champions Cup and cash prizes, I thought that was interesting vs. dumbing it down like tabletop BB has with the BB2016 ruleset.
There are kick off events that can decide the result of a match before it even starts, would it be a good idea to disable them for champions ladder?
A lot of competitive people would like less randomness but I'm sure a lot of casuals would like more.
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SirIronclad
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Re: Amazing Video here, very relevant to Bloodbowl!

Postby SirIronclad » 30 May 2017, 22:54

Still think the biggest issue we have in Champion Ladder is the Death Spiral. Change or extend the bank rule so that you can actually save money for replacements and add some mechanic that allows you to revive or "heal" players between matches.

Eventually I'd also like to see BB2 allow coaches to swap in substitutes during a drive for when a player gets KO'd or worse.


Removals are the most unfair aspect of Blood Bowl imo, since they can snowball like crazy in and between matches.



Ah, and last but not least, my personal favourite - the BB 2016 MVP rule - should 100% be a thing in BB2.

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VoodooMike
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Re: Amazing Video here, very relevant to Bloodbowl!

Postby VoodooMike » 30 May 2017, 23:26

I actually didn't think this vid was anything to do with TV+. Guess VoodooMike just has a bee in his bonnet for some reason.
I was simply using it as an example, as it has been accused of reducing skill in the game in favour of accessibility, which is precisely what the video is discussing. I haven't seen anything that makes the game "more random" from Cyanide or from GW thus far, nor anything in the official rules that is trying to make the game more universally appealing to casual players.
Cyanide/Focus have been tailoring BB2 towards the tournament scene with the Champions Cup and cash prizes, I thought that was interesting vs. dumbing it down like tabletop BB has with the BB2016 ruleset.
If you told them they could make more money by catering to the filthy casuals, and that what they're doing is basically the opposite of that, they'd change their plans in a big hurry. At present they only take counsel from people who have zero interest in casual play and accessibility, so I'm not sure they truly know the difference.
A lot of competitive people would like less randomness but I'm sure a lot of casuals would like more.
Funny, from what I've seen it's the other way around. The long-time BB players want things to remain as random as always while new people chafe at the randomness and want to see it dramatically reduced.
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Re: Amazing Video here, very relevant to Bloodbowl!

Postby Darkson » 31 May 2017, 06:41

Eventually I'd also like to see BB2 allow coaches to swap in substitutes during a drive for when a player gets KO'd or worse.
Then you're not playing Blood Bowl anymore.

And the BB2016 MVP rule is a bad one - it's a min/maxers (almost perfect) wet dream (they'd only cream more for a 100% chosen MVP).
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JimmyFantastic
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Re: Amazing Video here, very relevant to Bloodbowl!

Postby JimmyFantastic » 31 May 2017, 11:32

A lot of competitive people would like less randomness but I'm sure a lot of casuals would like more.
Funny, from what I've seen it's the other way around. The long-time BB players want things to remain as random as always while new people chafe at the randomness and want to see it dramatically reduced.
Long time doesn't necessarily mean competitive and new doesn't necessarily mean casual, as people like Darkson prove :)
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Re: Amazing Video here, very relevant to Bloodbowl!

Postby Darkson » 31 May 2017, 13:43

Yep, I'm a long time,new, competitive casual. What's your point?
Galak 3:16 says "There is a point in time that a player really should read the rulebook."
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Phage
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Re: Amazing Video here, very relevant to Bloodbowl!

Postby Phage » 31 May 2017, 23:21

I actually didn't think this vid was anything to do with TV+. Guess VoodooMike just has a bee in his bonnet for some reason.
My bad, assuming made an a$$ out of me! However I still argue that the current system of TV+ is a needless handicap on player skill as shown by games won. Despite the randomness of luck, a winning record does imply skill. Skill involves risk management, knowing how and when to take advantage of good luck and how and when to mitigate bad luck. There is no need to punish winning records by increasing the TV of their opponent unless the goal is to make the game easier for less skilled players. Despite the video posted not being intended for TV+ discussion I feel it is relevant here with the handicap system.


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