3 thing's i know won't, but would like to change.

Share your ideas and Suggestions about Blood Bowl 2.
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Darkson
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Re: 3 thing's i know won't, but would like to change.

Postby Darkson » 04 October 2016, 19:26

Dislike Dode's idea for numerical rolling: a) because it pretty much forces a "this position is #1, this is #2 on people (would you put a lino at #1 and a dancer at #9 with this rule?) (and on a side note, does BB2 allow player renumbering?)
b) as primarily a TT player it would be a pain in the ass to do, compared to the standard "start at LOS, left to right" (now I accept that the game can do this easily, but as stated, BB2 is meant to follow the TT rules closely, not be getting further and further away).
Galak 3:16 says "There is a point in time that a player really should read the rulebook."
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Nope, I was talking about a 0TTD on a Blitz! using TTM.

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dode74
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Re: 3 thing's i know won't, but would like to change.

Postby dode74 » 04 October 2016, 19:37

Then don't do it by number but in the order you prefer. I used numerical because I figured it would be easier to track on TT. If you're content marking on the teamsheet or turning each player who has been rolled for in the order in which they are rolled then great: it can still work nicely, and tracking modifiers is easy because it's simply [my players down] - [his players down].
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Re: 3 thing's i know won't, but would like to change.

Postby Darkson » 04 October 2016, 20:59

Still not keen on it tbh. IF (and that's a big if) it needed changing I'd rather it was changed to can only affect a random number of the team (say a D6 players, then roll as normal).

But still not convinced it needs changing.
Galak 3:16 says "There is a point in time that a player really should read the rulebook."
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Nope, I was talking about a 0TTD on a Blitz! using TTM.

Javelin
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Re: 3 thing's i know won't, but would like to change.

Postby Javelin » 04 October 2016, 23:27

Well you're in luck. BB2 lets you get a stadium enhancement that eliminates thrown rock (and get the ref) or pitch invasion (and riot). Rejoice.

plasmoid
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Re: 3 thing's i know won't, but would like to change.

Postby plasmoid » 05 October 2016, 10:01

A few thoughts:
On Pitch Invasions: Seeing as they're quite rare, and they've been reduced from injuries to stuns since the olden days, I don't think they're that bad.
Yes they can be rough, but so can an ill timed riot.
But if you did want to do something like Dode, and the numbers thing is an issue, how about randomly choosing 1 of the 4 board edges, and then let the counting start from that edge? (Fairly thematic, IMO, as fans pour onto the pitch from one side). In case of 2 players being equally close to the board, the coach who rolled the PI chooses.

About Blitz and PD:
Personally I think they're a bit much. I've seen them decide way too many close games for my taste.
It is true that they affect set-up, and that is a purpose worth keeping. But IMO hat description is a bit too rosy.

If your team is already in trouble - underdog or bleeding players - then it is a lot harder to mitigate with your set-up.
Also, since you don't know where the ball will land when setting up, then, IMO, no set-up is really safe from a Blitz! If it was harder to advance on the Blitz! turn, then perhaps it would feel more like the set-up actually mattered. Perhaps if Dodges and Leaps weren't allowed on the Blitz turn...
PD would be less bad if you couldn't move more players to the LOS. Still plenty of ways to mess up your opponent.

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Jeliel
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Re: 3 thing's i know won't, but would like to change.

Postby Jeliel » 05 October 2016, 12:49

Kick off events were fine when the game was mostly about craziness and laughs in older rulesets.
Since with later editions Blood Bowl has become more “serious”, some of these events can be way too impactful on the final outcome of the match.

Especially Blitz! Perfect Defense and Pitch Invasion should be tuned down a bit and maybe Quick Snap! shouldn’t be extended to players on the line of scrimmage.

Yep (about QS), not a fan of easy OTTD, imho they destroy the natural flow of the game, but that’s just personal and I’m not too passionate about it (after all I’ve been more on the offender side :D ).

Just my 2c.

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Re: 3 thing's i know won't, but would like to change.

Postby plasmoid » 05 October 2016, 20:48

Coincidentally, the contrast between QS and Blitz/PD is stark.

With the threat of QS you know exactly what you're doing when you're lining up 1 Square behind the LOS. You know what you're risking, and you know exactly what the consequence will be if QS comes up.

With PD and Blitz it is much less clear what you "should have done" and even if you did, you can still be scr*wed.
That's what bugs me.
YMMV.
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Martin

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dode74
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Re: 3 thing's i know won't, but would like to change.

Postby dode74 » 05 October 2016, 23:30

Coincidentally, the contrast between QS and Blitz/PD is stark.
With QS it's basically an extra move for the person who is going first anyway and has a direct effect on how the person expecting to go second sets up. Blitz/PD changes what that person who is expecting to go first does and, if he chooses to honour the threat, has an effect on how he will set up. It's worth remembering that for every time "your team is already in trouble" and gets hit, there is also a time where the opponent hasn't set up to take advantage.
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Miraskadu
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Re: 3 thing's i know won't, but would like to change.

Postby Miraskadu » 06 October 2016, 08:35

A few thoughts:
On Pitch Invasions: Seeing as they're quite rare, and they've been reduced from injuries to stuns since the olden days, I don't think they're that bad.
The argument it use to be worth so now it is ok, since it isn't as bad any more, doesn't hold much water. It just means that anything that has been changed once can't be changed again.
Yes they can be rough, but so can an ill timed riot.
A riot you can react to since you get a turn as well.

Let's take an example for PI under current rules, I'm on the defensive after scoring, so I kick the ball and PI stuns all but 2 to 4 players of my team, possible and I had it happen. Now the offence gets their turn running the ball down the field and I have only 2 to 4 players to react to their 9 to 11 players. Same next turn for him since my players will still be lying down.

And yes PI can swing both ways, but that does not equal to it is not game influential. Just ask yourself you would have felt if the final of the world cup got decided by a PI gone bad.
But if you did want to do something like Dode, and the numbers thing is an issue, how about randomly choosing 1 of the 4 board edges, and then let the counting start from that edge? (Fairly thematic, IMO, as fans pour onto the pitch from one side). In case of 2 players being equally close to the board, the coach who rolled the PI chooses.
Dode idea was a suggestion and I think it can work, it ca be done different ways for sure to reach the same result.
About Blitz and PD:
Personally I think they're a bit much. I've seen them decide way too many close games for my taste.
It is true that they affect set-up, and that is a purpose worth keeping. But IMO hat description is a bit too rosy.

If your team is already in trouble - underdog or bleeding players - then it is a lot harder to mitigate with your set-up.
Also, since you don't know where the ball will land when setting up, then, IMO, no set-up is really safe from a Blitz! If it was harder to advance on the Blitz! turn, then perhaps it would feel more like the set-up actually mattered. Perhaps if Dodges and Leaps weren't allowed on the Blitz turn...
PD would be less bad if you couldn't move more players to the LOS. Still plenty of ways to mess up your opponent.
There I disagree, even when my team is bleeding players or playing the underdog. And yes blitz and PD is kinda needed to counter 1TTD otherwise there is barely no way to stop natural one turners at all.

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dode74
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Re: 3 thing's i know won't, but would like to change.

Postby dode74 » 06 October 2016, 08:50

Just ask yourself you would have felt if the final of the world cup got decided by a PI gone bad.
"That's Blood Bowl".

More seriously, luck has a huge influence in real life sports too. Look at the Euro 2016 final where Ronaldo was injured early: Portugal had to change their plan and France were unable to adapt. There are many, many other examples, and are more indicative of the limitations of one-off matches and KO competitions rather than the game itself being "too random".
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