Legendary edition: please take out bribe stall for dwarves

Share your ideas and Suggestions about Blood Bowl 2.
Javelin
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Re: Legendary edition: please take out bribe stall for dwarves

Postby Javelin » 09 February 2017, 16:58

I think its good that we actually see the death roller on the field occasionally now...

Robinzxro
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Re: Legendary edition: please take out bribe stall for dwarves

Postby Robinzxro » 12 February 2017, 14:04

On the fact that dwarves starts with all good skills, they are resilent, everyone playing when sees that the foe is dwarves say...fucking dwarves....., there is a specific rule for secret weapons ejecting it athe end of the drive, the fact that you cannot do a lot against them when they have guards, piling on, might blow, av o, thick skull, the fact that they do not win but ruin your team.....chaos do the same but with av, 9 or 8 without thick skull.
As you see plenty of reason.

Bb in not balanced in its own but should try to be fair. Bb has rougly a lifespan of 30 years... and he said no free bribe to keep secret weapon on the pitch for all this time

Miraskadu
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Re: Legendary edition: please take out bribe stall for dwarves

Postby Miraskadu » 12 February 2017, 14:22

Robinzxro wrote:On the fact that dwarves starts with all good skills, they are resilent, everyone playing when sees that the foe is dwarves say...fucking dwarves....., there is a specific rule for secret weapons ejecting it athe end of the drive, the fact that you cannot do a lot against them when they have guards, piling on, might blow, av o, thick skull, the fact that they do not win but ruin your team.....chaos do the same but with av, 9 or 8 without thick skull.
As you see plenty of reason.


So what I read here are purely opinions on how people think when they play dwarves? Dwarves are a good bash team, yes. I get it you don't like facing dwarves. But the results are not shown anywhere in the numbers.

Robinzxro wrote:Bb in not balanced in its own but should try to be fair. Bb has rougly a lifespan of 30 years... and he said no free bribe to keep secret weapon on the pitch for all this time


So now you are arguing for preference of not having a stadium bribe. But then we can argue it about taking it out completely, so not available for any race. Other races really like to foul and base their plays around that, so remove the stadium upgrade for them as well since fouling was balanced around not having a free bribe?

And as I stated earlier, make the dwarve pay for giving you a free bribe, gang foul his players, nothing is more damaging to a dwarve player than going down in numbers.

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VoodooMike
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Re: Legendary edition: please take out bribe stall for dwarves

Postby VoodooMike » 12 February 2017, 16:26

Robinzxro wrote:Taking out the bribe stall for dwarves is a necessity....

No it's not. I think you just don't enjoy playing against Dwarf teams. A lot of people don't... but the bribe doesn't make their wins a forgone conclusion by any means.

Miraskadu wrote:So how do you reason the necessity, dwarves winrate does not increase if they have a bribe stadium or not.

Don't make things up - the stadium upgrade shows a statistically significant increase in win rates as compared to lacking it, or compared to pretty much any other upgrade.
Friendly Reminder: Correlation does not equal Causation - tattoo it on the inside of your eyelids if it'll help.

Miraskadu
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Re: Legendary edition: please take out bribe stall for dwarves

Postby Miraskadu » 12 February 2017, 18:53

VoodooMike wrote:
Miraskadu wrote:So how do you reason the necessity, dwarves winrate does not increase if they have a bribe stadium or not.

Don't make things up - the stadium upgrade shows a statistically significant increase in win rates as compared to lacking it, or compared to pretty much any other upgrade.

Funny, do they? Not with the numbers I have. Otherwise I wouldn't make that statement.

For both CCL 1 nor for CCL 2, the win rate doesn't improve.

Bribe stadium.PNG
Bribe stadium.PNG (5.89 KiB) Viewed 113 times


So if you have other data, please enlighten us.

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Mercy Flush
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Re: Legendary edition: please take out bribe stall for dwarves

Postby Mercy Flush » 12 February 2017, 19:07

Image

& how does this compare to other upgrades?
Image

Miraskadu
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Re: Legendary edition: please take out bribe stall for dwarves

Postby Miraskadu » 12 February 2017, 19:12

Mercy Flush wrote:
& how does this compare to other upgrades?


I haven't looked at it to be fair. Since the argument was the bribe stadium makes dwarves OP. So I looked at the winrate of dwarves with the bribe and any other dwarve.

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VoodooMike
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Re: Legendary edition: please take out bribe stall for dwarves

Postby VoodooMike » 12 February 2017, 22:38

Miraskadu wrote:Funny, do they? Not with the numbers I have. Otherwise I wouldn't make that statement.

You're using stupid numbers, is why. CCL seasons are short and the population fairly small, so you'll end up with very few instances of each stadium upgrade... resulting in wildly spread out distributions that say nothing.

Go use a large COL dataset if you want to investigate something that is primarily used by long-term teams, and if you want enough relevant datapoints to make your distributions usable.

Also, now is an awesome time to introduce the google-university folks to the concept of error propagation..

Miraskadu wrote:So if you have other data, please enlighten us.

I have COL data. It says "miraskadu is wrong". Consider yourself enlightened.
Friendly Reminder: Correlation does not equal Causation - tattoo it on the inside of your eyelids if it'll help.

Miraskadu
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Re: Legendary edition: please take out bribe stall for dwarves

Postby Miraskadu » 12 February 2017, 23:16

VoodooMike wrote:
Miraskadu wrote:Funny, do they? Not with the numbers I have. Otherwise I wouldn't make that statement.

You're using stupid numbers, is why. CCL seasons are short and the population fairly small, so you'll end up with very few instances of each stadium upgrade... resulting in wildly spread out distributions that say nothing.

Go use a large COL dataset if you want to investigate something that is primarily used by long-term teams, and if you want enough relevant datapoints to make your distributions usable.

Also, now is an awesome time to introduce the google-university folks to the concept of error propagation..

Miraskadu wrote:So if you have other data, please enlighten us.

I have COL data. It says "miraskadu is wrong". Consider yourself enlightened.


Using the numbers I have, which are available to me. Ok, sure they are stupid. Interesting wording choice. I know that CCL, is rather short. But hey, I work with what I have nothing else.

An to the being enlightenment, it apparently seemed to hard to put out any kind of numbers. But then we wouldn't have to beg and wait for your wisdom anymore. Now where would we end up then. Sharing Information, some kind of weird idea.

But sure if you say that COL shows a different numbers, I stand corrected.

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VoodooMike
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Re: Legendary edition: please take out bribe stall for dwarves

Postby VoodooMike » 12 February 2017, 23:39

Miraskadu wrote:Using the numbers I have, which are available to me. Ok, sure they are stupid. Interesting wording choice. I know that CCL, is rather short. But hey, I work with what I have nothing else.

What you should be able to say is that you lack sufficient data to make any claims, rather than making claims based on insufficient data. Saying "it's all I've got" is not an excuse for that. The fact that one of your ranges covers over 15% should tip you off. You should also be reporting the number of datapoints, not just the ranges, specifically because it lets people know how much you're working with.

Miraskadu wrote:An to the being enlightenment, it apparently seemed to hard to put out any kind of numbers. But then we wouldn't have to beg and wait for your wisdom anymore. Now where would we end up then. Sharing Information, some kind of weird idea.

Oh, you know how to read the results of statistical analyses and post-hoc testing, do you? I tell you what the numbers say not because I'm fostering dependence, but because one way or another that's what I'm going to have to do... and I don't see any point in going through the effort of uploading SPSS output tables and linking them in a post just so you can stare at them and pretend you know what the hell they mean.

Don't want to take my word for it? That's totally fine by me, it'll just result in you being wrong.
Friendly Reminder: Correlation does not equal Causation - tattoo it on the inside of your eyelids if it'll help.


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