Playing a league with a mix of human players and AI teams

[Rifugio]

The Legendary edition looks like it's going to be a very challenging project, and I was very impressed to see that the possibility to play a league with a mix of human players and AI teams has been included.

We don't have much detail yet about how this will be implemented but I'd like to make a few suggestions of things that could be great to see as part of this.

1) The option for Administrators to create combined AI/Multiplayer Leagues competitions based on the Solo League Creation match types also allowing for seasons (e.g. Cup, Championship. Regional League, Old World League and custom league - as well as Ladder, Round Robin and Knockout). In these cases the Silver, Gold and Platinum teams could all be boosted AI teams (like in the single player).

2)The ability to continue the league if a player drops out by letting the league administrator set a team to AI control. The coach name could be be changed to reflect that it was now under AI control (e.g. Ghost of Rifugio) and the team name could also be changed to italics becoming a "ghost" of the players original team. Any changes from that point would not affect the players original team stats. It would become an AI team, which was a carbon copy of the original team at the point the player left.

3) If a player can't make a particular match (or is going to be away for a while) allow them to select AI control for their team rather than hold up the entire league. When they have time they could set it back and begin playing the matches again.
If this is seen to be an exploit perhaps warn coaches before setting it and have their teams flagged as custom should the decide they want to play this way. In cases where two coaches are set to AI perhaps allow the administrators to host the matches as AI versus AI (if the engine could handle this). The entire match would be played out by the AI and the video generated for the absentee coaches.

4) Allow the league Commissioner and Administrators to regenerate individual AI teams before the competition begins to add missing team types or remove teams they don't want to be part of the league. Perhaps also allowing them to boost AI teams (X number of times) to allow them to start the game more experienced than the player teams.

Probably a tall order to have all of these included in the Legendary edition - but it would be great if development continued towards making this something truly special. Any other ideas/suggestions?

[Deckard]

100% all of these. Can't wait for this feature to arrive.

The most important thing is to give the league admin enough controls around the league once it's been formed, this'll be the difference between a couple of games being played and then none, or multiple season / tournaments being completed. Especially the option for if a human player drops out midway through, being able to switch that position to AI would be very handy (for longer leagues particularly).

[Rifugio]

Yes, I think that's the thing I'm really trying to get across here - but I don't have any experience running multiplayer leagues so was hoping for perhaps more feedback from any existing league administrators on what they would like to see from this option (if it's something they were interested in) or anything from the Developers to go into a bit more detail would be welcome.

[Mercy Flush]

It is a feature long requested in Cyanide BB games & I hope the interested coaches will finally get some fun out of it.
On the whole though it will be a very niche feature as it's really only desired by some hot seaters & rookie players
who want to play together but do not have enough players to (or do not wish to) form a full league.

The 1 reason it falls down in it's appeal to a wider scope of events is that the standard of the AI has always been
so low that it offers virtually no challenge to many coaches with even a basic level of competence & so would
undermine any league/tournament who's attitude was even slightly competitive. (ie which ever coach(es) happened to
be drawn against an AI team in a particular round (etc) could just use it to rack up a riduculous score &/or spp farm
to such a degree as to unbalance the rest of the event for other coaches who didn't have such an easy draw).

Not all coaches will mind this & it's nice that it ticks off another box (as stated it's been requested for years)
but without a serious overhall of the AI programming (either by Cyanide or better still throwing it open to moderation
on e.g. steam workshop) it will only ever be a rookie feature.

[Rifugio]

I see what you are saying. I have played Blood Bowl for many years now, mainly against the AI and a few matches against friends.
That said maybe I would be best described as a rookie as far as exploiting the AI is concerned. I still enjoy playing against it and lose the occasional game, drawing a few more.

So yes, the idea is geared more towards small groups of more rookie players but I think that in larger tournaments with fewer players (and depending on the tournament types) the luck of the draw will count for less - and rather allow players to have a less challenging matches against the AI in between the games when they face off against each other.

Hoping it offers a bridge for less experienced players to have a great time playing in larger tournaments than feeling restricted to single play as they can also rack-up victories. Also fewer player versus player matches mean it will be easier for players to schedule against the AI so the game may move on a bit faster. I don't know how many successful multiplayer tournaments are out there but I can imagine the drop out rates must be high.

Not sure how much it will help selecting some of the single player tournament types which already contain more experienced AI teams, but maybe there could be further balanced with Team value in comparison to AI teams. Meaning players get less in the way of pre-match funds when playing against the AI (perhaps some ratio the game administrators could change?).

Also there is always hope the AI improvements help make them more competitive

[Gediablo]

Also there is always hope the AI improvements help make them more competitive

Probably why this otherwise good suggestion won't be implemented. When the first 50% hard AI tournaments all ends up nearly 100% of the AI in the lower half at the end of the tournament it will make it clearer to anyone that the AI is very bad compared to real humans.

[SaintTodd]

Also there is always hope the AI improvements help make them more competitive

Probably why this otherwise good suggestion won't be implemented. When the first 50% hard AI tournaments all ends up nearly 100% of the AI in the lower half at the end of the tournament it will make it clearer to anyone that the AI is very bad compared to real humans.

One of the advantages of adding AI teams to a league is that the weaker players won't be losing ALL THE TIME. It's the AI's job to lose. I agree that it will be an advantage for the teams who get to play AI teams early, but there's so much randomness in the game, what's a little more?

[Miraskadu]

Also there is always hope the AI improvements help make them more competitive

Probably why this otherwise good suggestion won't be implemented. When the first 50% hard AI tournaments all ends up nearly 100% of the AI in the lower half at the end of the tournament it will make it clearer to anyone that the AI is very bad compared to real humans.

One of the advantages of adding AI teams to a league is that the weaker players won't be losing ALL THE TIME. It's the AI's job to lose. I agree that it will be an advantage for the teams who get to play AI teams early, but there's so much randomness in the game, what's a little more?

Sure, the weaker player might get some wins from the AI teams, while the good or decent players will farm the AI teams for spp like hell. So in the end of the day the good players get a bigger buff for their team out of AI games than the weak players, who barely win against the AI. Hence, you are hurting the weak players again since the other coaches will have even better developed teams then they do.

[SaintTodd]

Probably why this otherwise good suggestion won't be implemented. When the first 50% hard AI tournaments all ends up nearly 100% of the AI in the lower half at the end of the tournament it will make it clearer to anyone that the AI is very bad compared to real humans.

One of the advantages of adding AI teams to a league is that the weaker players won't be losing ALL THE TIME. It's the AI's job to lose. I agree that it will be an advantage for the teams who get to play AI teams early, but there's so much randomness in the game, what's a little more?

Sure, the weaker player might get some wins from the AI teams, while the good or decent players will farm the AI teams for spp like hell. So in the end of the day the good players get a bigger buff for their team out of AI games than the weak players, who barely win against the AI. Hence, you are hurting the weak players again since the other coaches will have even better developed teams then they do.

Sorry, but this is an exceedingly weak argument. The weaker players in a league can go games without scoring a single td. Letting them have a chance to harvest some spp will help them aquire essential skills. Besides, even the weakest players should be able to beat the AI by two, while the best will only win by three or four on average. This will definitely help the weak players more than the good ones.

[dragonwolf]

Sorry, but this is an exceedingly weak argument. The weaker players in a league can go games without scoring a single td. Letting them have a chance to harvest some spp will help them aquire essential skills. Besides, even the weakest players should be able to beat the AI by two, while the best will only win by three or four on average. This will definitely help the weak players more than the good ones.

I have to side with Miraskadu . A good coach will just hammer the AI to get as many upgrade as he can within a match so he ll get an edge on the next few games with a few star players. A rookie will aim at getting the win and possibly a few spp. In other word an experience coach may have 3 or 4 game equivalent of spp / upgrades within a match vs the AI opposed to may be the equivalent of only 1 win gain for a rookie player. In that sense , it put even more handicap on the rookie next time they meet an experience player