Champion ladder concedes rule suggestion

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Dreamerbg
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Champion ladder concedes rule suggestion

Postby Dreamerbg » 08 March 2017, 12:03

Hello everyone,

I am seriously bothered about the MAX 5 concedes per coach rule.
On what stats it is based on and etc.

Since for the current formula coaches will play up to 42 games with a team 5 concedes is a around 10% of their matches.
But was it taken into account that there are different type of coaches. For example the most competitive of them play like a 5 or more games per day instead of the base 1 (42 games for 42 days equals 1game/day). So for them its much more likely to end up on a bad matches. And by a bad match I mean that their current team is "killed" by loosing key players and they will restart (start a new team) after the game. Such games (and there are other types) only loose your time as a competitor and with the current concessions rule you cant actually save this 1+hours of your time.

So my simple suggestion is to make it % based on the amount of games every individual coach does.
If you keep the idea of 10% of the games that can be concessions then a coach with 20 games will have only 2 concessions available and those with 250 games will have 25 at their disposal.

Then Admins will just need to look at the concessions at the end of the season to determine who they should disqualify or not based on the concession rule :)

I hope such a change can be implemented and hopefully will bring some more joy for playing in the ladder for everyone and in particular the most competitive coaches without making things harder for those without so much time.

Best Regards!

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CalciumCas
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Re: Champion ladder concedes rule suggestion

Postby CalciumCas » 08 March 2017, 12:09

No sorry a horrible idea for one simple reason. It heavily favours a coach that plays far more games.
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samt2806
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Re: Champion ladder concedes rule suggestion

Postby samt2806 » 08 March 2017, 14:22

Hello everyone,

For example the most competitive of them play like a 5 or more games per day instead of the base 1 (42 games for 42 days equals 1game/day). So for them its much more likely to end up on a bad matches. And by a bad match I mean that their current team is "killed" by loosing key players and they will restart (start a new team) after the game. Such games (and there are other types) only loose your time as a competitor and with the current concessions rule you cant actually save this 1+hours of your time.
What's funny is that the issue with your idea is written in your own post, i quoted it for you. So you want to concede when you have no fun because your team is being destroyed? Well, that's pretty selfish in my opinion. Have you ever thought about the other coach's fun?

Say your opponent is a dad, full time job etc. He play hardly 3 games a week because he don't have time. He finally find some time, get on and is matched with you. Turn 6, you have 3 dead and 5 KO. You concede, cuz eh its no funz. Do you think that guy will be happy?

You seems to play a lot of games, otherwise you wouldn't post such an idea. If you have enough time to play a lot, you have enough to man up, suck it up and see it through. You'll have plenty of time to restart a team.
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dode74
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Re: Champion ladder concedes rule suggestion

Postby dode74 » 08 March 2017, 15:05

A few issues:
Admins will just need to look at the concessions at the end of the season to determine who they should disqualify or not based on the concession rule
End of season disqualification is something I did in FOL. It works up to a point but means people are free to concede with impunity for an entire season. This will have the effect of increasing concession rates.

Then there is the problem of tracking. Example for you: You think you're 12-4-1 with a DE team, 26-5-3 with a Dwarf team you have conceded twice with, 17-6-0 with a Chaos team and 15-5-5 with a WE team you've conceded three times with. You can't be absolutely certain on those records because you can't get at them easily, but you have kept an eye on the number of concessions and you know it's 5. You're 3-0 down and have 6 players left on turn 6. If you concede now will you be booted from the league under a percentage system? Coaches shouldn't have to note these things down in order for them to work.

Then there's the "capture" issue. Data capture runs are run 2-3 times a week at which point I can look for players who have broken the concession rules. If a player goes over his limit then finds himself above it again before he is booted it will be confusing for him as to the reasons.

Finally, there is the communication issue. Some coaches don't know the simple rule as it is despite it being in-game, on this forum and on Steam. Having a more complex limit makes the communication issue more complex.

5 is simple. We can all count to 5, I hope! If there was a way of implementing this in-game, or even having a warning for people before they conceded, I'd be all for it. That's not there, though.
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Dreamerbg
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Re: Champion ladder concedes rule suggestion

Postby Dreamerbg » 08 March 2017, 17:17

Well the whole idea is based around on not to make coaches who really play blood ball all day the same restrictions as the coaches with less time and therefore games.
Maybe an increasing cap of concessions then for reached amount of played games ?

If you say that for 100 games 5 concessions are the normal limit then 10 cons. for 200 games or something like that.
I still agree that concessions are not something that should be encouraged but coaches with really a lot of games will have more games where it is just the only option they have to save their team or time or avoid annoying opponent or whatever good reason a coach may have.

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dode74
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Re: Champion ladder concedes rule suggestion

Postby dode74 » 08 March 2017, 17:48

Most of the same issues apply, tracking being the big one.
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Re: Champion ladder concedes rule suggestion

Postby twitch/the_sage_bb » 09 March 2017, 16:22

more games where it is just the only option they have to save their team or time or avoid annoying opponent or whatever good reason a coach may have.
Those are not good reasons, those are the concessions we're trying to weed out. Unrecoverable crashes, disconnects, or real-life emergencies are good reasons. The argument that coaches who play 200 games should be allowed more of those than ones who play 25 games still holds, though (shame Seomon got kicked from his qualifying spot due to crashes, for instance).
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TheSpydyr
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Re: Champion ladder concedes rule suggestion

Postby TheSpydyr » 10 March 2017, 19:57

In all honesty, you should never concede a match unless you have a real life emergency. If you take the time to start a match and are committed to starting that match, you should finish it out no matter how badly it goes. You have an opponent on the other side of the monitor who also committed his time and it's only fair that he get to play his game out.

If you are conceding 5 times in a season that doesn't include any real life emergencies or internet D.C.s that are out of your control, then you are taking advantage of the concessions and what they are in place for, so you deserve to be banned.
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VoodooMike
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Re: Champion ladder concedes rule suggestion

Postby VoodooMike » 13 March 2017, 16:28

it is just the only option they have to save their team or time or avoid annoying opponent or whatever good reason a coach may have.
You seem to be labouring under the foolish assumption that playing games is about having fun. That's absolutely not the right mindset if you're going to be a serious Blood Bowl player... fun is something you can ill afford if you want to master this game or rise through the ranks in this community. Fun is for the weak.

Even if you're bleeding you shouldn't concede unless the rate at which you're bleeding is such that you have a good faith belief that you won't have time to make it to the end of the game AND the hospital before expiring.

Now, that said, it's not all about you. This is a multiplayer game, and that means there are TWO people whose needs are being seen to by a match. There may not been enough acknowledgement of the fact that this is a leisure activity in this community, but likewise that's not a wonderful excuse for blowing off a match you agreed to play with someone. If you can't be fairly sure you can play to the end then don't queue up to play. Wait until you know you're in for the long haul and then do it.
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TheSpydyr
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Re: Champion ladder concedes rule suggestion

Postby TheSpydyr » 15 March 2017, 17:39

Even if you're bleeding you shouldn't concede unless the rate at which you're bleeding is such that you have a good faith belief that you won't have time to make it to the end of the game AND the hospital before expiring.
I actually lol'd at this!
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