Raising Bretonnian Blitzers' Armour Value to 9

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plasmoid
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Re: Raising Bretonnian Blitzers' Armour Value to 9

Postby plasmoid » 19 April 2017, 21:23

Hi Dode and SirIronclad,
@Dode:
MA8 on Bret Blitzers would be far more of a buff than AV9, particularly in conjunction with the A access.
Agreed.
And some feel that as fast as a wardancer is too fast for a human
I know. And I understand the objection. I don't expect to persuade anyone, but:
a) Human catchers already are as fast as a Wardancer. These are not unique star players, but players available to all teams.
b) To some extent I think this comes from mixing up straight speed with mobility/agility. Wardancers have MA8, AG4, Dodge and Leap. They're incredibly more mobile and ninja-esque than an MA8 Bretonnian blitzer.

All that said, I'm not claiming that a buff is needed.

@SirIronclad:
Have you played much Brets in BB2?
Nope. But I've played them a fair deal in tabletop. And I've done quite well with them (in the that format).
Also, what's your take on their price tags? Personally I think they're very overpriced.
Not a lot, IMO.
I've read people saying that you should use just 1 or 2 blitzers, because they're overpriced. But - seriously - how are you supposed to win a game? ;)

Anyway - I think 40K is very fair for the linemen.
Yeomen: 70K for a 50K statline with a reasonably useful skill on both your and your opponents turn. IMO also fair.
The blitzer admittedly isn't a bargain. But 110K for a 90K player with 2 extra skills isn't far off the mark. They could have been 100K, but that would have been a steal, IMO. I get that the 2 skills aren't very popular - but part of getting the team to work is getting the most from what you have. When I play the team I feel like I use dauntless quite a bit, and while I don't use catch that often, I do use the threat of catch.
As a whole, the team is a touch pricey - but IMO prices could have stayed the same if rerolls were dropped to 60K.

Cheers
Martin

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dode74
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Re: Raising Bretonnian Blitzers' Armour Value to 9

Postby dode74 » 19 April 2017, 21:52

a) Human catchers already are as fast as a Wardancer. These are not unique star players, but players available to all teams.
Yes, I know, and some people think that is too fast for a human, catcher or otherwise. Some would prefer 7337GA, for example.
b) To some extent I think this comes from mixing up straight speed with mobility/agility. Wardancers have MA8, AG4, Dodge and Leap. They're incredibly more mobile and ninja-esque than an MA8 Bretonnian blitzer.
Ofc, but not only is MA8 a pretty huge buff, but the sort of mobility a human catcher has does not belong on an armoured knight.
All that said, I'm not claiming that a buff is needed.
I know. I was merely commenting on the nature of it.
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Niessuh
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Re: Raising Bretonnian Blitzers' Armour Value to 9

Postby Niessuh » 20 April 2017, 07:59

Humans should not be the most fast, strong, agile or armoured players. They must be the most versatile. That's why I would give Knights full GASP access, maybe removing catch.

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dode74
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Re: Raising Bretonnian Blitzers' Armour Value to 9

Postby dode74 » 20 April 2017, 11:02

8 S access players on a team will lead to more bash-play. Brets are a hybrid team, so 4 S and 4 A fits them well.
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plasmoid
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Re: Raising Bretonnian Blitzers' Armour Value to 9

Postby plasmoid » 20 April 2017, 14:32

Hi Niessuh,
MA8 is not "most fast". Gutter runners are faster.
Cheers
Martin

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Darkson
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Re: Raising Bretonnian Blitzers' Armour Value to 9

Postby Darkson » 20 April 2017, 17:47

MA8 Blitzers was a stupid idea when it was first suggested, and is still just as stupid today.

But then so is the team. ;)
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Nope, I was talking about a 0TTD on a Blitz! using TTM.

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Niessuh
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Re: Raising Bretonnian Blitzers' Armour Value to 9

Postby Niessuh » 22 April 2017, 10:41

8 S access players on a team will lead to more bash-play. Brets are a hybrid team, so 4 S and 4 A fits them well.
You could remove S access to Yeomen and put it at 60K

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dode74
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Re: Raising Bretonnian Blitzers' Armour Value to 9

Postby dode74 » 22 April 2017, 11:09

They'd then be entirely reliant on the blitzers, with G-only access on all but 4 players. There's a reason Yeomen have S access. Take a read: http://www.plasmoids.dk/bbowl/BBBretonnians_design.htm
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SirIronclad
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Re: Raising Bretonnian Blitzers' Armour Value to 9

Postby SirIronclad » 22 April 2017, 17:06

Although I care very little about Plasmoid's original vision and justification for Brets I have come to terms with how the team functions in BB2 right now. I am starting to believe that they're indeed a formidable and surprisingly flexible team if a coach is willing to go beyond Blodgestep and Guard spam.


Here's my preliminarily (pre-LE) definitive list of minor buff suggestions for Brets, with two variants:

Cheaper positionals:
  • re-rolls down to 50k (from 70k)
  • Blockers (Wrestlers/Yeomen) down to 60k (from 70)
  • Blitzers (Knights) down to 100k (from 110k)
or

Better positionals:
  • re-rolls down to 50k
  • Blockers gain Jump Up (Wrestlers/Yeomen)
  • Blitzers to AV9 and 120k

Obviously the Blitzer buff in the first suggestion only makes sense if Human Blitzers go down to 80k, just like Orc Blitzers. Norse and Khemri positionals also suffer from some hefty price tags that just look silly in comparison to their much less bloaty counterparts.


That's me done discussing Brets until LE.
Last edited by SirIronclad on 25 April 2017, 15:08, edited 1 time in total.

Valcurdra
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Re: Raising Bretonnian Blitzers' Armour Value to 9

Postby Valcurdra » 24 April 2017, 07:03

I know that MA8 is controversially high - but at least it is a human stat: Human catchers have it too.
And some feel that as fast as a wardancer is too fast for a human ;)

MA8 on Bret Blitzers would be far more of a buff than AV9, particularly in conjunction with the A access.
Agreed, I had a mv 8 Knight on one team and he was awesome to use, this was before knights had agreed access. With AG skills he would be even better.

Having 4 mv 8 knights would be a massive buff, I think plasmoid made the right call to start them with 7mv.

Would be cool to play test mv8 once all the teams are released though.


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