My race tweak suggestions

Share your ideas and Suggestions about Blood Bowl 2.
Daggerheart
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My race tweak suggestions

Postby Daggerheart » 21 April 2017, 14:12

First let me list up two of my observations regarding the races and tournaments:

A) Most "top" teams stop fighting before TV2000 (top 10 finisher in the tournaments). Sometimes stop before TV 1900 too. I guess the main reason for this is when you go higher the claw, mighty blow, pile on dmg just spins out of total random control...

B) When you count the number of teams of each race in the top 100 finishers in tournaments... this "stats", how many teams of each race in top 20 or top 100, usually will tell a lot about how "balanced" they are up to the TV1900-1950 mark... you agree a little with me on this?

Due to A and B, why not try to achieve the following goal: Make "small" changes to the races so reaching the top 20-25 chances of each race is aprox the same until you reach TV 1900-2000.

How do achive this balance?

Either (or both):

1. Set down a "council" of the 20 best BB2 players in the world and ask them what tweaks can be done to each race to achieve this balance.

2. To find what race that need buffing most can also be done this way: For all the tournaments look at top 25, top 50 and top 100. Give each race a score based on the final placement with their respective team. Example Orc team comming at 12th place. Gets 13/25 (= 0,52) points at the top 25 list and 88/100 = 0,88 points on the 100 top list. Doing this for all teams on the three lists... add the numbers for each race up and you will get decent performance comparison lists of all the races. Then it's just to start tweaking from the bottom and watch the stats in the next tournaments unfold, keep doing minor tweaks, until races are aprox balanced! At least the bottom three races should be adjusted.

Well at least then it's done with more objective stats, not comming up with: Hey it was a Bretonnian team that won this tournament, Brets are good!!! Son... with the amount of luck in this game, yes Brets can roll 10 six'es in a row. In skilled hands 25-0-0 some races are super hard, but in skilled hands it CAN be done if Nuffle kicks in... also I have one theory... it's easier to get wins on some hours of the day... if you play when most Americans are online... the level of European players are tougher... so during night in Europe... thats the time to get the most wins... well folks.. it's just a theory ;-)

I am am not top 20 coach in the world! :-) And I see some of my suggestions already is put forward in other topics... but still I want to share my own modest list:

1. Bretonnia: Blitzers and/or Blockers should get armor 9, maybe lose 1 movement point due to this... at least the blocker if he gets it... Reason: Based on my own play and watching the ranking lists... and visual they are packed with armor... so armor 8 is a joke either way...

2. Norse: The Yeti and/or the Ulfwerers should get 9 in armor (thick hides). The Norse now are just to weak to take a fight. Since they have only max 3 in start agility they need something to stay on the pitch. Block skill is not enough. Maybe all the armor 7 vikings should been given thick skull too... just to show they are a tough fighter race...
+ Also change the graphical presentation. The tight pants makes them look.... male oriented... the goal was to make them look like a joke?? Why not a tough look on them like the orcs or similar.... yes why not animal hides "downstairs". Vikings in speedos! Common!???

3. High elves: I feel the High elves should have 3-4 blitzers starting with block skill, not only 2. They really need some more brawling power. Or instead... always also wanted the High elves to have one Elven King (or Elven Lord)... starting with Block and Mighty blow (or block and strength 4) :-) Thus giving them 3 total with starting block skill.

You agree with me on this three?
Last edited by Daggerheart on 21 April 2017, 15:13, edited 28 times in total.

Itchen
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Joined: 03 January 2016, 14:38

Re: My race tweak suggestions

Postby Itchen » 21 April 2017, 14:17

*gasp* some suggestions without having data and graphs to back up the definite need for them. To the bunker!

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Niessuh
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Re: My race tweak suggestions

Postby Niessuh » 21 April 2017, 14:55

3. High elves: I feel the High elves should have 3-4 blitzers starting with block skill, not only 2. They really need some more brawling power. Or instead... always also wanted the High elves to have one Elven king (or Elven Lord)... starting with Block and Mighty blow :-) Thus giving them 3 total with starting block skill.
Well this is a good idea...I have to disagree on everything else mostly.

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SirIronclad
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Re: My race tweak suggestions

Postby SirIronclad » 21 April 2017, 16:32

I'd rather give Dodge to HE Catchers.

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dode74
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Re: My race tweak suggestions

Postby dode74 » 21 April 2017, 16:38

A) The INTENT is to have teams stop at about 2kTV. The new season system does that as well.
B) Where are you getting this "count"? And what makes you think tournament finishes is the relevant statistic here?

There is a balance to Blood Bowl. That balance was set by the BBRC. The BB2016 team have no intention of changing that balance. If BB2 is to stay as a viable version of the board game then that balance also needs to stay the same.

Now, at least your second suggestion is based on some data (albeit used rather randomly). It throws out the vast majority of data, but it at least attempts to be objective. The problem with it is this: you don't have enough data to do what you suggest when you pare it down that far.
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samt2806
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Re: My race tweak suggestions

Postby samt2806 » 21 April 2017, 16:47

3. High elves: I feel the High elves should have 3-4 blitzers starting with block skill, not only 2. They really need some more brawling power. Or instead... always also wanted the High elves to have one Elven king (or Elven Lord)... starting with Block and Mighty blow :-) Thus giving them 3 total with starting block skill.
Well this is a good idea...I have to disagree on everything else mostly.
I don't think HE need a buff. At 2k TV they rock. If you were to add blitzers, maybe reduce catchers from 4 to 2. But then ... the team look very much like Dark elves with 2 catcher instead of witches.
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dode74
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Re: My race tweak suggestions

Postby dode74 » 21 April 2017, 17:08

High Elves aren't brawlers.
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Darkson
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Re: My race tweak suggestions

Postby Darkson » 21 April 2017, 17:28

1. Nope. If the visual makes them look like AV9 then the visual is wrong - fix that.
The team struggles here because it was designed to be a T1.5 race based on a FULL game, against the 24 official races - the lack of races in BB2 hinders them. Wait until there's a full game.

2. Norse aren't designed to be team that is best at high TV - they are at their best at low to mid TV. If you want to play them at high TV then you have to accept that you've passed their sweet spot. Same with Amazons (though they manage at higher TV slightly better).

3. Nope. If you want brawling elves then play Dark Elves. High Elves are the passing Elves. If you want to fight with them, go for it, but you are not playing to their strengths.


And as Dode alluded to, not all teams are designed to be as good as each other across all TV ranges. Some are better at low TV, some mid, some high - to make them all the same at all ranges would be boring imo.

And perhaps wait until you have a full game with all the races before trying to judge races strengths.
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Miraskadu
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Re: My race tweak suggestions

Postby Miraskadu » 21 April 2017, 17:34

Oooh, another random thread, I get my popcorn ready.

And nope to the changes.

Daggerheart
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Joined: 12 April 2017, 12:35

Re: My race tweak suggestions

Postby Daggerheart » 22 April 2017, 10:25

A) The INTENT is to have teams stop at about 2kTV. The new season system does that as well.
B) Where are you getting this "count"? And what makes you think tournament finishes is the relevant statistic here?
Several tournament finishes (top 25/top 100) Will say A LOT about how balanced the teams are. It is so obvious... I should not even try to explain it... but ok. The tournament finishes... of course best if you look at many... will give you an overall output of average win/draw/loss ratio for each race... it will give you an pretty good estimate how good each race hold itself in overall tournament mode. The data will be as objective you can get! The races that does worst, again and again, needs some miner tweaks... who cares about BBRC??? who cares that the board game has a broken balance??? Let's make BB2 more balanced.
There is a balance to Blood Bowl. That balance was set by the BBRC.
The balance in Blood Bowl up to the TV1900-1950ish is a joke. Weird you claim this...
Last edited by Daggerheart on 23 April 2017, 08:59, edited 1 time in total.


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