Blood Bowl New Wave Team Edition

This is the zone for the ones who prefer to play against the machine.
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Monstrum
Posts: 637
Joined: 14 October 2011, 10:30

Re: Blood Bowl New Wave Team Edition

Postby Monstrum » 28 November 2012, 14:51

can't wait to test this, not enough time to play competatively so good AI challenge is exactly what i need, i will be more than happy to give you feedback

EDIT: ooh from oracide's post is sounds like the AI is not much better? it still doesn't understand move before rolling dice? does it attempt to blitz ball carriers if they are about to score atleast?
DISCLAIMER: General advice based on my experience is always correct.

Stw402
Posts: 33
Joined: 30 July 2009, 15:32

Re: Blood Bowl New Wave Team Edition

Postby Stw402 » 28 November 2012, 17:47

Thanks for the AI feedback, it's what I think need to hear people say. I'm not not 100% sure how to improve the AI anymore, my thoughts on this is that so much of the AI we still yet to fully understand, unless somebody from Cyanide would take the time to improve the AI I think we a pretty much stuck with just tweaking settings. If that is all we can tweak, then I wish to get the best settings we possible can, so perhaps looking again at some of the points you made and see if I can tweak them to reduce the negative from them.

I can't help wonder how much of the Ai is controlled by the settings in the exe file, perhaps that might be the way to improve the AI, but I'm sure Cyanide might be a little upset if I released a edited exe file.

Orcacide
Posts: 433
Joined: 16 October 2011, 21:51

Re: Blood Bowl New Wave Team Edition

Postby Orcacide » 28 November 2012, 18:07

I'm sure that's what it is. What needs to happen is the AI needs to weight it's movements in order from 0 (impossible to fail) to 1 (most likely to fail), and then do them in ascending order. I don't know how it's coded, and I don't know a damned thing about how you do that, but I would quite simply just use the percentages of success and do the turn in that order. That alone would probably be a bigger improvement than anything we could do as far as the AI providing a challenge. If the AI made all it's moves first, then the 1/216 blocks, the 1/36 blocks, the 2+ dodges with dodge, etc, in that order, we wouldn't be getting the free turns we get now when it decides it needs to dodge out of a tackle zone with a Saurus to Blitz a linemen who's nowhere near the ball carrier.

What I will likely do when I desire a challenge is a) not take inducements (because 150k is easy to overcome with a wizard, and even 680k is trivial to overcome with a wizard + morg'n'thorg) and b) score as soon as I am within range of scoring. Doing both of those should enable the odd agility team to eek out a win against me from time to time.

Orcacide
Posts: 433
Joined: 16 October 2011, 21:51

Re: Blood Bowl New Wave Team Edition

Postby Orcacide » 28 November 2012, 21:11

I should add that despite the marginal changes to the AI, I really love your mod just for the simple fact that all star players changes the game quite significantly. There are a lot of teams which lose a lot of flexibility by not having all star players accessible to them (see underworld). If the guys running this game were smart (hint hint), they'd just take your mod, reskin a couple star players and push it live. The only thing I would suggest on that front is replacing players with the goblin of appropriate secret weapon. Like Fezglitch obviously stands out because he's a Saurus, but it would be easier to recognize if he just had the Fanatic model, etc. Same with all the chainsaws and whatnot. That's purely a cosmetic complaint though, and I love your mod simply for that alone.

Dietzen
Posts: 20
Joined: 02 October 2009, 11:16

Re: Blood Bowl New Wave Team Edition

Postby Dietzen » 29 November 2012, 10:36

Assuming you enter the Death Bowl automatically through the first campaign, I just beat it on hard difficulty. With a vampire team no less. :) wasn't hard at all, even won 5-0 in my first match. Haven't lost one actually.

Master N
Posts: 28
Joined: 18 May 2012, 12:44

Re: Blood Bowl New Wave Team Edition

Postby Master N » 29 November 2012, 23:18

Very cool mod from reading about it, will give it a go. ;)

Dietzen
Posts: 20
Joined: 02 October 2009, 11:16

Re: Blood Bowl New Wave Team Edition

Postby Dietzen » 01 December 2012, 09:56

Hmm it's weird, my game updated and I could no longer see the Death Bowl, and it was only after switching over all files again, that a new campaign would offer the death bowl. (Using steam btw)

Btw, can anyone tell me how to (through SQlite) add experience to a team? I.e. a new player, adding fx 31 experience and also making sure it will have 3 skill ups? Anyone?

Stw402
Posts: 33
Joined: 30 July 2009, 15:32

Re: Blood Bowl New Wave Team Edition

Postby Stw402 » 01 December 2012, 15:10

AI Experiment
Having read the comments about the AI what I'm going to do is reset all the setting on the AI file to zero and start with editing one section at time to try and understand what each section does to the game, this should give me knowledge of what each setting will change, I will print here my findings. With any luck perhaps we can work out a better AI.
The only thing I would suggest on that front is replacing players with the goblin of appropriate secret weapon. Like Fezglitch obviously stands out because he's a Saurus, but it would be easier to recognize if he just had the Fanatic model, etc. Same with all the chainsaws and whatnot. That's purely a cosmetic complaint though, and I love your mod simply for that alone.
I did try to do this, but the Fanatic is not a star player and in testing was causing problems, so I was concerned about the game reading the player wrongly, so stayed with the tested method. So currently we are limited to using star player models only for star players.
Hmm it's weird, my game updated and I could no longer see the Death Bowl, and it was only after switching over all files again, that a new campaign would offer the death bowl. (Using steam btw)
I will add this info to the first page it should answer that question:

When the game updates it will replace the World Cup data file and you will need to replace the World Cup data file with the New Wave World Cup Data file to continue using the New Wave extra teams.
Should anything new be added to the data, for example cyanide add a new star player, then the New Wave Mod will be updated to include this extra data, so check back to this thread to get the update.

Dietzen
Posts: 20
Joined: 02 October 2009, 11:16

Re: Blood Bowl New Wave Team Edition

Postby Dietzen » 01 December 2012, 15:13

Could you tell me how to add exp to players? So that I can lvl them up once entering the game?
As is right now, I can add exp but can't figure out how to make skill ups rdy when I enter the game. It just says 51 exp and lvl 4, but no skill up rdy.

Stw402
Posts: 33
Joined: 30 July 2009, 15:32

Re: Blood Bowl New Wave Team Edition

Postby Stw402 » 01 December 2012, 16:46

AI Experiment Conclusion

Having reset all the totals on the order timer to zero and removed several limits from the AI I went on to load in the game and the AI played just like it did, my conclusion is that the AI file does very little to improve or help the computer in decision making, so therefore it a pointless waste of time to make any adjustments to this file. I'm pretty sure back in the past the AI file did adjust how the AI would act, but currently it seems to make no difference what you change in the totals to in this file. The marginal improvements your currently seeing with the AI are from database, making player act the way they should. So unless cyanide make the adjustments themselves, we currently stuck with a sub-par AI.
Could you tell me how to add exp to players? So that I can lvl them up once entering the game?
As is right now, I can add exp but can't figure out how to make skill ups rdy when I enter the game. It just says 51 exp and lvl 4, but no skill up rdy.
Have you tried playing one game, the SPP will be ready spend after you have played one game, that's the fast and easy way of doing that, the other way is slightly more in depth, I will make a tutorial on how to add teams to your database, I will post you a link later.


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