Blood Bowl New Wave Team Edition

This is the zone for the ones who prefer to play against the machine.
wobbles303
Posts: 25
Joined: 19 October 2011, 13:07

Re: Blood Bowl New Wave Team Edition

Postby wobbles303 » 11 December 2012, 23:58

AI Experiment Conclusion

Having reset all the totals on the order timer to zero and removed several limits from the AI I went on to load in the game and the AI played just like it did, my conclusion is that the AI file does very little to improve or help the computer in decision making, so therefore it a pointless waste of time to make any adjustments to this file. I'm pretty sure back in the past the AI file did adjust how the AI would act, but currently it seems to make no difference what you change in the totals to in this file. The marginal improvements your currently seeing with the AI are from database, making player act the way they should. So unless cyanide make the adjustments themselves, we currently stuck with a sub-par AI.
Could you tell me how to add exp to players? So that I can lvl them up once entering the game?
As is right now, I can add exp but can't figure out how to make skill ups rdy when I enter the game. It just says 51 exp and lvl 4, but no skill up rdy.
Have you tried playing one game, the SPP will be ready spend after you have played one game, that's the fast and easy way of doing that, the other way is slightly more in depth, I will make a tutorial on how to add teams to your database, I will post you a link later.
Hello I've been busy with work, a few other mods and helping out with a game. I forgot to mention those order timers in the AI file only affect the real time play mode apparently. I had reduced the times drastically trying to make a difference then I read it was only for real time. I'm trying to dig out an old forum post where someone explained it before but I can't find it. It seems like there is less and less information about modding blood bowl these days... :(

I ported my special big guys teams to the first version of new wave for CE a few weeks back. I added new player types to differentiate these players skills from the existing big guys but the campaign won't even start - whereas LE would let me play a season. After doing all that for the campaign to not even load got me ****** off with the game again. I've just come round :)
I need to check it all again and make sure I didn't miss something. I'll keep tinkering with the AI as well and see if I can understand it better to make something good.

Edit: I'm pretty sure modding the AI file does change the AI behaviour. If Cyanide had (the time to) hard-coded it all I'm sure they would have just deleted this file. Also if they had the time to hard-code one xml file then why not the other files that still affect the game and have noticeable results like changing the starting cash for a campaign among the many other things you can change. I don't see why they would spend the time programming an elaborate xml system for the AI which is relatively easy to work with, just to put it all in the exe. Why would they single out this one file - that has no bearing on online play and won't help online cheaters - and hide all its functionality. Unless they see offline modders as cheaters and they have decided to be proper killjoys. I don't think they are that bad.

Edit Again!!: Good news I got the new teams (with new player types) working! I ported them to the new wave teams db and I can get into the campaign and see the teams!

They are as follows:

The Wasters - Minotaurs
The Brute Force - Ogres
Knots Forest - Treemen (literally a forest)
The Dwarf Slayers - Trolls
Clan Moulder Warped - Rat Ogres
Texas Chainsaw Massacre - Looneys
The Abominable Snowmen - Yhetis
The Mummies Boys - Mummy's
The Hollow Ones - Tomb Guardians
Jurassic Park Rangers - Kroxigors
The Great Unclean Ones - Beasts of Nurgle
Frankensteins Monsters - Flesh Golems
The Ninja's - Assassins
The Dark Brotherhood FC - Assassins

I missed the boat on getting them sent to Stw402 in time for the teams database. They are a bit specialist anyway and could upset people when their team gets ripped apart by one of them. So they should be a separate addon. I still have to add special teams to New Wave for the new races which will be bloodthirsters, bull centaurs and warpstone trolls. I would love to actually have the warpstone trolls in with the rat ogres for clan moulder, but I think thats still impossible although I thought the new player types where impossible. Dwarfs also need a steamroller team to up the ante a bit. Like the looneys they won't have the secret weapon skill so that they dont get sent off - their weapons are still there though.

The teams are made from the one player type, so they are based on the old school big guy teams that Jervis Johnson made rules for. The big guys don't have players with decent agility. Even having one beastman on the minotaurs team made scoring easy. Although the problem is that the AI will buy players as normal until I can get new races working.

Oh and before anyone asks how can steamrollers hold the ball? some of the these teams dont know what the ball or score is and dont care. someone told them there was a fight happening and directed them to the bloodbowl stadium. The score generator doesn't care about this however and will happily generate good scores for them, so they wont get knocked out straight away :)

Confucius44
Posts: 14
Joined: 14 October 2012, 20:04

Re: Blood Bowl New Wave Team Edition

Postby Confucius44 » 22 December 2012, 23:59

I just wanted to say thanks for all the work that has gone into this. The AI does seem a bit better to me. At least the minotaurs don't seem to be designated as ball carriers any more. I'm also enjoying all the new teams, so that is great.

Is there any way to make the AI stop running backwards with the ball every few turns? It seems to happen when the AI doesn't see any obvious way to move forward, it turns around and runs back towards its own TD line. I'm sure this can be a valid tactic in some situations, but the AI doesn't seem to be able to identify them.

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VoodooMike
Posts: 1614
Joined: 14 July 2009, 07:44
Location: Calgary, Alberta
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Re: Blood Bowl New Wave Team Edition

Postby VoodooMike » 25 December 2012, 11:21

Edit: I'm pretty sure modding the AI file does change the AI behaviour. If Cyanide had (the time to) hard-coded it all I'm sure they would have just deleted this file. Also if they had the time to hard-code one xml file then why not the other files that still affect the game and have noticeable results like changing the starting cash for a campaign among the many other things you can change. I don't see why they would spend the time programming an elaborate xml system for the AI which is relatively easy to work with, just to put it all in the exe. Why would they single out this one file - that has no bearing on online play and won't help online cheaters - and hide all its functionality. Unless they see offline modders as cheaters and they have decided to be proper killjoys. I don't think they are that bad.
Yeah, it's not like the programmer admitted to bypassing XML variables in later patches in order to churn out faster updates or anything, right?
Indeed, I made a small change that overrides some data of this XML. Let's say it was a quick dirty fix to address an issue with AI.
Do keep in mind that the people who made the original game are not the same folks who made the LE version, or the CE version. You've got XML files that are left in because they were part of the earlier versions, and there aren't enough folks around to trim it all down to only the necessary stuff just to avoid things not making sense to you...

..but, y'know if it makes you happier to believe then by all means do! Games are about entertainment, and if you wholeheartedly believe in something that improves your enjoyment of the game then power to you, placebo or not.
Friendly Reminder: Correlation does not equal Causation - tattoo it on the inside of your eyelids if it'll help.

wobbles303
Posts: 25
Joined: 19 October 2011, 13:07

Re: Blood Bowl New Wave Team Edition

Postby wobbles303 » 30 December 2012, 16:26

Yeah, it's not like the programmer admitted to bypassing XML variables in later patches in order to churn out faster updates or anything, right?
Indeed, I made a small change that overrides some data of this XML. Let's say it was a quick dirty fix to address an issue with AI.
Do keep in mind that the people who made the original game are not the same folks who made the LE version, or the CE version. You've got XML files that are left in because they were part of the earlier versions, and there aren't enough folks around to trim it all down to only the necessary stuff just to avoid things not making sense to you...

..but, y'know if it makes you happier to believe then by all means do! Games are about entertainment, and if you wholeheartedly believe in something that improves your enjoyment of the game then power to you, placebo or not.
Well thanks for pointing that out. I guess that information was probably stickied at one point on the old forum. I wasted alot of time that would've been better spent on other projects... This game has potential to be nearly as fun as the TT but GW are all about the money as always. So its just too bad. Luckily theres other GW games that are more mod friendly.

Aexrael
Posts: 2
Joined: 22 January 2013, 20:09

Re: Blood Bowl New Wave Team Edition

Postby Aexrael » 22 January 2013, 20:12

Stw402 is there any chance you could release the Formation/Player position changes/AI separately? Or could you share your documentation for these changes in the DB?

Fen_
Posts: 6
Joined: 20 November 2012, 13:46

Re: Blood Bowl New Wave Team Edition

Postby Fen_ » 23 March 2013, 22:16

Hi,

I 'm pretty sure i read the answer somewhere a few months back but i just can't find it :lol: .. Should i disable the mod when playing multiplayer? I had a game online where i kinda forgot that the starplayers were added (been playing with new wave for so long solo :p) had some inducements, so i picked the chainsaw star, but the game crashed when it showed the inducements results. This may well not be realated to the mod, but that's my first crash ever so i'm unsure :)

Thank you.

Edit: Well answered on my own, i disabled new wave, haven't crashed since..Still unsure that the mod is responsible, seems logical though as the other player probably didn't have the same database for starplayers and the game went fubar :D.. i'll be swithcing it on and off, not hard to do with the provided program (Generic Mod enabler). Thanks again to STW for all his work on this geat solo mod

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Itsapaul
Posts: 4
Joined: 19 April 2013, 20:02

Re: Blood Bowl New Wave Team Edition

Postby Itsapaul » 20 April 2013, 01:20

So the Deathbowl stuff is optional and doesn't replace the normal campaign right? I basically just need the AI mod; I'm still kinda new to be trying out a difficulty ramp up when the computer's actually playing correctly.

Karhumies
Posts: 1
Joined: 29 October 2013, 15:40

Re: Blood Bowl New Wave Team Edition

Postby Karhumies » 29 October 2013, 15:48

Thank you for all the work you have put into making this New Wave mod! I have enjoyed the new teams and the Deathbowl tournament. I feel that the new low TV enemy teams are the hardest opponents in the game because you don't get inducements vs them. Too bad the AI could no longer be upgraded without modifying the .exe file.

I am a tabletop veteran, and defeated the Deathbowl tournament on the first attempt with a Goblin team. The games where exiting, sometimes I could field only 6 players for second half, and even had 1 overtime victory in the tournament (rather difficult with Stunty and secret weapons). Nevertheless, beating a low TV Dwarf team (no inducements for me) 2-0 with low TV Goblins just seems..wrong. The AI just has no idea that protecting the ball carrier would be a good thing, and starting the turn with completely unnecessary AG 2 Dwarf dodges into tackle zones is not a good thing. I can not think of any human player who would choose to dodge away with Dwarf Longbeards away from Goblin tackle zones every turn instead of hitting them with 2 die blocks with Block and Tackle.

Also, one thing about team construction: I played vs TV 2250 Elf team with 16 players and 2 re-rolls and a huge amount of cash in treasury. I took Halfling Master Chef as inducement. Opponent had 0 re-rolls for the match. There was no need for star players or wizard or anything, they just lost because no re-rolls for dodges. A good AI team should buy themselves at least 5 team re-rolls if they have the cash available.


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