This game cheats...

This is the zone for the ones who prefer to play against the machine.
Holy Terror
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Re: This game cheats...

Postby Holy Terror » 15 February 2012, 18:29

For people that think the AI cheats, I had a khemri player (real life coach) doing stuff that should be reserved for 5 agility. The whole game w/o fail. Dodging into 3 tzs without rerolls, dodging whenever and wherever he liked (a few dodges out of tacklezones did fail) but given on a 2 agility there is a 50% chance of failure it was insanity. But my point is that it does happen.
Having a bad day? Stop crying and punch a goblin!!!!

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VoodooMike
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Re: This game cheats...

Postby VoodooMike » 15 February 2012, 20:48

The AI doesn't cheat. It's just way luckier than most people.
Rewording your complaint that the RNG is broken or skewed in the AI's favour isn't going to make it any more true, nor make people spontaneously agree with you. If you sincerely think it is fair but that chance somehow favours the AI on a metaphysical level then it is an even dumber assertion than the overused RNG complaint.

People need to get a better handle on the difference between random and even distributions. I blame the education system.
Friendly Reminder: Correlation does not equal Causation - tattoo it on the inside of your eyelids if it'll help.

FStingraY2012
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Joined: 15 February 2012, 12:59

Re: This game cheats...

Postby FStingraY2012 » 15 February 2012, 23:04

The AI doesn't cheat. It's just way luckier than most people.
Rewording your complaint that the RNG is broken or skewed in the AI's favour isn't going to make it any more true, nor make people spontaneously agree with you. If you sincerely think it is fair but that chance somehow favours the AI on a metaphysical level then it is an even dumber assertion than the overused RNG complaint.

People need to get a better handle on the difference between random and even distributions. I blame the education system.
Man... Don't you just love it when people act superior?
"Oh... I blame the education system."
"You are dumb!"
Yep, I blame the education too, because clearly you have none. Neither does anyone here apparently.
Do you seriously think I came here looking for "approval"? How old do you think I am? Five? Haha... Man...

Edit: Also, who's rewording what? I never said the RNG was broken. Unless you're thinking I'm someone else. In that case, I call you paranoid. :lol:

Back on topic.
Explain me the attachment then.
Do you see the score? Those two touchdowns were made exactly the same way. And I couldn't prevent them because of 6s after 6s (not all of those 6 are in the image, obviously)
I hope you aren't going to blame my "biased perception" now...
I can play match after match and see those 6s after 6s in every single one of them. Are you going to make me post more screenshots? Too bad because I won't. I just want to show to you guys that the "random" is not all that random. At least for ME it ain't. As this SS shows it. Again, this is not and isolated case for me.

I'll leave the image for all of you to see and try to explain it to someone else. Because, clearly, anyone that comes here and tells something you guys "don't approve" you just insult him. I don't like to argue, especially with arrogant pricks. I have better things to do than waste my time here arguing whos got the biggest dick.

Enjoy, and get a life. But here comes a warning if you do get one: People have different opinions. Respect that.
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dode74
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Re: This game cheats...

Postby dode74 » 15 February 2012, 23:50

Looks perfectly reasonable to me. The odds of rolling 5 6s in a row are exactly the same as the odds of rolling any other sequence of 5 rolls - 0.013% without a TRR and 0.066% with one - hardly lottery-winning.
The funny thing is that the AI didn't even need 6's to carry out the play you screenied - it needed 3 2s, a 3 and another 2. The odds of success without a TRR were 32.15%, and with one (and I can tell from the screenie he had one available) it's 64.3%.
"random" is not all that random
What exactly do you mean by that? What do you think "random" means?
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VoodooMike
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Re: This game cheats...

Postby VoodooMike » 16 February 2012, 02:34

Man... Don't you just love it when people act superior? <snip>
I'm pretty obviously superior, actually. Your failure to see that is probably based on the same blinders that prevent you from reading the pages of logic and data debunking your strongly held beliefs. :)
I can play match after match and see those 6s after 6s in every single one of them. Are you going to make me post more screenshots? Too bad because I won't. I just want to show to you guys that the "random" is not all that random. At least for ME it ain't. As this SS shows it. Again, this is not and isolated case for me.
As I suspected, your original post was a poorly veiled attempt to re-voice a long-debunked theory about the game's internals.

The game's RNG has been examined in two very exhaustive ways. First, the game logs of thousands of games were processed and the dice rolls aggregated to find the roll averages on a per game level, and on an individual player level in each game (in case the AI really was feeding itself better rolls). The result was exactly the distribution you'd expect to see across a large number of rolls, which is 16.66667% of rolls being each number.

Second, the actual code of the game was reverse engineered and reproduced such that the actual sequence of dice rolls could be examined before they happened, allowing people to see what they, or the CPU, would get as their next dice rolls. The CPU was not found to be using anything but exactly the rolls that would be expected to be coming up in the sequence. No code was found in the game that served to alter the dice rolls or save them up, or any of the other Area 52 garbage the conspiracy theorists have suggested.

The problem lies in the misconceptions the common man has about randomness - randomness has clusters, and people expect randomness to result in an even distribution... which it will, but only across a large number of iterations. People don't seem to get that when you're not talking about a large number of iterations, you are very unlikely to see an even distribution.

If you ever want to test this misconception, draw a large square on a piece of paper and ask someone to draw 5 small circles inside the box at random spots. You'll find that the vast majority of people will place the circles as equidistant from one another as they can, creating an even distribution - specifically because they don't truly understand randomness. A small sample of random placement would be even more likely to display clusters than not.

So, believe what you want, but if you don't want to feel condescended to, keep the irrational beliefs to yourself, especially if you want to claim you're not looking for approval when you voice them and are unwilling to/incapable of defending them.
Friendly Reminder: Correlation does not equal Causation - tattoo it on the inside of your eyelids if it'll help.

Durandal
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Re: This game cheats...

Postby Durandal » 16 February 2012, 02:49

In addition to dode's comments, in this screenshot the AI is not even rolling a bunch of 6's.

It rolled: 1, 6, 6, 5, 5, 5

You are seeing the modifiers for certain actions and adding them to the raw roll. ANY dodge or ball pick-up roll automatically gets a +1 bonus; see the Blood Bowl Competition Rules, page 8.

You can also see here that the game is spelling this out for you. Let me show you:
Slinych Dodge {AG} (3+) <-- this is telling you that since Slinych has AG 4, his default Agility based rolls succeed on a 3+.
5 + 1 {Dodge} + 0 {TZ} = 6 <-- this is showing you that his actual roll of the dice was 5. This was modified by the +1 bonus everyone always gets for any dodge. It would have further been modified by any tackle zones (TZ) he was dodging INTO, but there were none, so it says +0.
This leaves us with the final total of 6, which succeeds as he needed a 3+.

This roll would have succeeded if he had rolled anything except a 1.

Patje
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Joined: 02 February 2012, 19:18

Re: This game cheats...

Postby Patje » 16 February 2012, 08:41

Man... Don't you just love it when people act superior?
"Oh... I blame the education system."
"You are dumb!"
Yep, I blame the education too, because clearly you have none. Neither does anyone here apparently.
Do you seriously think I came here looking for "approval"? How old do you think I am? Five? Haha... Man...
That's Mike for ya. However, your post does prove Mike's point. And no, I'm not a fan of his tune.
Edit: Also, who's rewording what? I never said the RNG was broken. Unless you're thinking I'm someone else. In that case, I call you paranoid. :lol:
Mike's tune: Education! :D Saying the AI is luckier is simply a rewording that the RNG is broken or altered. You may not have intended it that way, but it still is.
Back on topic.
Explain me the attachment then.
Do you see the score? Those two touchdowns were made exactly the same way. And I couldn't prevent them because of 6s after 6s (not all of those 6 are in the image, obviously)
I hope you aren't going to blame my "biased perception" now...
I can play match after match and see those 6s after 6s in every single one of them. Are you going to make me post more screenshots? Too bad because I won't. I just want to show to you guys that the "random" is not all that random. At least for ME it ain't. As this SS shows it. Again, this is not and isolated case for me.
One screenshot doesn't prove anything. Other than that Durandal already explained how rolls work. There also more than enough statements in this thread about the AI causing turnover after turnover. And no, you're game does NOT have a different AI.

Like Dode I'm curious to know what you mean when you say that random isn't all that random for you.
I'll leave the image for all of you to see and try to explain it to someone else. Because, clearly, anyone that comes here and tells something you guys "don't approve" you just insult him. I don't like to argue, especially with arrogant pricks. I have better things to do than waste my time here arguing whos got the biggest dick.

Enjoy, and get a life. But here comes a warning if you do get one: People have different opinions. Respect that.
Different opinions are respected. If they're properly backed with facts. And just so you know it, you're not showing respect for others opinions by making the statement "Yep, I blame the education too, because clearly you have none. Neither does anyone here apparently." in your 4th sentence.

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dode74
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Re: This game cheats...

Postby dode74 » 16 February 2012, 08:51

In addition to dode's comments, in this screenshot the AI is not even rolling a bunch of 6's.

It rolled: 1, 6, 6, 5, 5, 5
Good pickup - I missed that entirely!
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Zunova
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Re: This game cheats...

Postby Zunova » 16 February 2012, 10:12

I've never lost a match against the AI (mostly because when things get dire I rage quit and load a save game until I win).
Possibly one of the best lines I've ever seen :lol:

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VoodooMike
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Re: This game cheats...

Postby VoodooMike » 16 February 2012, 10:30

I've never lost a match against the AI (mostly because when things get dire I rage quit and load a save game until I win).
Possibly one of the best lines I've ever seen :lol:
Also, no doubt, why he sees the same sets of rolls from the AI over and over again.
Friendly Reminder: Correlation does not equal Causation - tattoo it on the inside of your eyelids if it'll help.


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