The way to go vs. the AI - Or: How do i start out ?

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RWSDave
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The way to go vs. the AI - Or: How do i start out ?

Postby RWSDave » 12 October 2013, 23:56

So, i really don't know if the title fits, i simply didn't know better how to put it. Also note, that english isn't my first language, so bare with me.

So just to give you a few hints as to where i'm coming from let me start by saying that i have been trying to get into this game since it's been released on the PC and am currently using the Chaos Edition if that even matters.I have no experience whatsoever with tabletops. I've have been trying to approach this game in different ways like every few months or whenever i got bored with other stuff and had time to sink my teeth into this. I realize that this game can't be learned in 5min and that certainly isn't what im aiming for although i try to understand whats going on whenever i do something.

After watching Total Biscuit's Cup i decided to give it another go, and a more sincere one at that. And here i am, struggling and confused as usual =)

Now, just to set my goals: I am NOT interested in online-play (yet and probably never will be). I've played with a friend of mine who happens to be as much of a noob as i am, so we enjoyed our time tinkering with stuff and doing amazingly stupid things with goblins and halflings (i found that hilarious tbh. I think i would most enjoy playing a Goblin Team once i fully understand what i'm doing which totally contradicts everything i do right now ^^ as i figure it would be more of a challenge than it would be viable). But ultimately i don't even want to compete with ppl who take this game way more seriously than i do. So my take on it is, enjoying my play vs the machine and following guides just to see how things work out and if i like that. Thing is, i get amazingly frustrated with losing a player for example. Now i know this is completely my problem and a player getting injured/dying is extremely common and shouldn't be something to get upset about. However this led me to the conclusion that i want steady progression -> a durable team, which ultimately took me to the "bashy side of BB", namely Dwarves and Chaos (after reading about how they develop and so on). I have yet to understand how to play a mobile team and how to make plays with amazing passes and stuff like that. I would assume it's easier to look to the extremes and concentrate on a perfect execution of a given strategy than going with a Jack of all trades-Team that can develop all kinds of strategies at once but won't excel at any of them. That's why i shy away from, let's say, team likes Humans.

To be honest i don't even know where to look for the rules anymore since i get confused as to what version of the rules the game uses... iirc it was LRB5 ? And LRB6 is the most recent, but was not implemented into the PC version ? I don't even know if there's much of a difference, just would like to know what exactly i need to read and understand. Also guides only make sense if they apply to the given rules. So i assume reading outdated guides for previous versions of the ruleset wouldn't make much of a sense.

Now here's what i need some help with as i really try to enjoy this gem of a game:

Considering that the AI is "flawed" and getting beaten badly by amazing plays practically isn't an issue, how would i plan to go into such an environment ? I simply assumed that going with a bashy team couldn't go wrong as badly as starting out with, let's stay, Woodelves and getting 3 casualties in the first game vs Orcs for example. Also i enjoy smashing faces for now, although i also didn't grasp the concept of fouling and such things yet. Does fouling even matter ? Since from my understanding casualties the AI suffers, dont have any impact on their roster whatsoever, so what's the point in that exactly ? And would you recommend that way of approaching the game or just to take it a step away from mere preference, would you say bashier teams would be easier to develop and handle than squishy teams ?

Now i've read about TV and the issue of spiraling expanses. Now i don't really understand if and if so what consequences this would have for me if i went on and played a whole campaign with 100+ games. I assume that it could frustrate me, because i would face problems i wouldn't understand and therefore didn't know how to prevent/solve.

I figure most of that would be fixed by me reading the rules and properly understanding them, so feel free to point me in the right direction, if you don't mind. =)

Is there something like a commentated playthrough of the game ? Or like a game commentary ? Now what im looking for is not "just" the analysis of a match, but also the take on team development and so on and explanations of decisions. Anybody know if there's something like that around ? Would you know of any content you would feel could help me get a grasp on the concept of the game and how to play it most efficiently (other than the rules obviously) ? Or simply let me know how you learned the game and what you would recommend doing. =)

If you've read this far, thank you very much for your attention. Any reply/help on the topic is greatly appreciated.

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Proxi Winther Rex
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Re: The way to go vs. the AI - Or: How do i start out ?

Postby Proxi Winther Rex » 13 October 2013, 11:41

Well....
To learn this game without playing online, is a bit like learn to ride a bike using a tricycle.... you don't get the important stuff learned... (like balance on the 2-wheeler)...

This game's AI is so ridiculously stupid, that I will be able to win the Blood Bowl, with a team only consisting of snotlings... if I desire so...
To learn how to play properly (Wich IMO is essential to having fun playing), you need to find some players, who is willing to play with you while tutoring you how to play...

As for the part with dead players... Well.... There's a reason it's called Blood Bowl :D

Apart from that... If you really insist to play the AI, I suggest you'll start playing with Chaos... Good Bashing and a possibility do develop your players to Killers OR passers/catchers... (very Versatile Skillsets Available)
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Koadah
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Re: The way to go vs. the AI - Or: How do i start out ?

Postby Koadah » 13 October 2013, 16:29

google found these rules.

I have not seen this version before but it looks up to date. Can anyone confirm that it is the correct version?


What worked for me was

Read the rules.

The art of blocking

The rookie guide

Read the main parts of the rules again.

some other guides

Watch games & replays of good coaches.

Play vs good coaches ask them for tips

If you do not follow some basic rules of thumb you will be throwing games away. See The rookie guide.
CaRBB

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Darkson
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Re: The way to go vs. the AI - Or: How do i start out ?

Postby Darkson » 13 October 2013, 17:01

Koadah wrote:google found these rules.
I have not seen this version before but it looks up to date. Can anyone confirm that it is the correct version?

Nope, think that's the LRB5 version.
The current rules, Competition Rules or CRP, are linked to on the "Resources" page of Blood Bowl, under Specialist Games.
Direct link (should work): http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_Cus ... _Rules.pdf
Galak 3:16 says "There is a point in time that a player really should read the rulebook."
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dode74
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Re: The way to go vs. the AI - Or: How do i start out ?

Postby dode74 » 13 October 2013, 17:03

There's a link at the top of the forum.
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Koadah
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Re: The way to go vs. the AI - Or: How do i start out ?

Postby Koadah » 13 October 2013, 17:56

Darkson wrote:
Koadah wrote:google found these rules.
I have not seen this version before but it looks up to date. Can anyone confirm that it is the correct version?

Nope, think that's the LRB5 version.
The current rules, Competition Rules or CRP, are linked to on the "Resources" page of Blood Bowl, under Specialist Games.
Direct link (should work): http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_Cus ... _Rules.pdf


Doh. Thought it was too much to hope for.

I'm sure all my LRB5s had mentioned "living rule book" quite prominently.
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Darkson
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Re: The way to go vs. the AI - Or: How do i start out ?

Postby Darkson » 13 October 2013, 20:56

Koadah wrote:Doh. Thought it was too much to hope for.

I'm sure all my LRB5s had mentioned "living rule book" quite prominently.

Iirc GW renamed the LRB5 at some point, same as they renamed the LRB6 to CRP (after they butchered it).
However, if you're interested in the fluff, that's a good one to download - just remember that some rules have changed.
Galak 3:16 says "There is a point in time that a player really should read the rulebook."
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plasmoid wrote:And hey, don't knock masturbating. Judging from this thread, it's a reasonably popular pastime.

RWSDave
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Re: The way to go vs. the AI - Or: How do i start out ?

Postby RWSDave » 14 October 2013, 08:50

Well thanks alot guys, that's exactly what i was looking for i guess. Figured the rules would be the best place to start with. I remember having read the LRB5 back in the days, when DE got released. At least i think that i did :lol: . So i got a little confused when i realized there was a new ruleset and didnt find any pointers as to them being implemented in the new Edition. But there we go. Thanks again. =)

I started watching stuff by Cknoor on Youtube now. Thing is, just like you said, it would be wise to watch good players play. However it's hard to judge if someone is playing well, if you basically dont have any idea on how to confirm that. I think that person winning games would be a good pointer, however luck is still involved. I think u get what i mean. Having played other competitive games and to be honest at least sucking at a few of them and still thinking i was doing rather well, i guess it makes judging the performance of other players kinda hard.

Guess i'll sink my teeth into the rules in the next few days and see if there's anything i struggle to understand (i'm sure there will be :lol: ).

Concerning game modes, is there anything you absolutely wouldn't recommend playing ? I read about Blitz being total bs and i think it was called "Championship" or something being full of bugs. So, although i get the point that the AI is flawed and all, would playing the "Campaign Mode" be fine in the sense that no major bugs occur or are there any differences between the PC game's rules and the rulebook that i should be aware of ?

Playing online isn't always an option, since i sometimes play while at work (yay, lucky me, i know) and the connection here blocks most interesting stuff (we can't even use google, lol) Although i shy away from going vs. other players if i dont know what im doing and the only one i know that would even be remotely willing to play BB is the guy i mentioned in my last post and, trust me on that, it's not worth asking him for advice on HOW to play the game :lol: . It's still hilarious though =)

Anyway, thanks again for the replies, i appreciate any help i can get !

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Darkson
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Re: The way to go vs. the AI - Or: How do i start out ?

Postby Darkson » 14 October 2013, 12:28

1. Don' play Real Time - pure and simple.

2. Blitz mode really depends on the extras you do or don't add. Add nothing, and I think it's the same as Classic. Add it all, and it's a completely different game.

3. Don't try World Cup. Seems there's a big bug, reported many times but never even acknowledged, where your team gets to a late round, and the game gets stuck, meaning your team is stuck to.

4. I beleive there's a league where experienced players will walk through new/less experienced players through the game, but for the live of me, I can't remember what it is. A check in the League sub-forum might find it.

5. Get Blood Bowl Manager (BBM) and download games from there - you should be able to find finals and top division games easily enough, and they're normally likely to be good games.


Unfortunately, due to a poor tutorial and an even poorer AI, and adding in the fact this game takes time to learn even with an experienced player across the board on tabletop, there's really no shortcut to playing, playing, playing, preferably against a real opponent (that knows the rules).

Good luck.
Galak 3:16 says "There is a point in time that a player really should read the rulebook."
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TalkFantasyFootball admin - PM me if you need help.
plasmoid wrote:And hey, don't knock masturbating. Judging from this thread, it's a reasonably popular pastime.

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Skipbidder
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Re: The way to go vs. the AI - Or: How do i start out ?

Postby Skipbidder » 19 October 2013, 18:01

Proxi Winther Rex wrote:This game's AI is so ridiculously stupid, that I will be able to win the Blood Bowl, with a team only consisting of snotlings... if I desire so...


Could you?
That seems ambitious.
Meaning you would take an Ogre team and not hire any ogres, right?
Would you take any non-snotlings via inducements?

I think I'll try it. But I'm going to use inducements.


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