Balance Teams & Diversity for BloodBowl Legend

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olivier.b
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Balance Teams & Diversity for BloodBowl Legend

Postby olivier.b » 18 March 2017, 22:02

Hello,
I know asking for balancing teams or change minor things are not really accepted by 'old players' or BB community.
However this link is interresting :

http://www.thenaf.net/2016/07/naf-championship-2017/

Do you think adding free skills for tiers 2 and tiers 3 teams will be a good idea in order to add some balance and diversity for this fantastic game ?

Tier One : No Change
Amazon, Chaos Dwarf, Dark Elf, Dwarf, Lizardmen, Norse, Orc, Skaven, Undead, Wood Elf

Tiers Two : One Single & one double Skill for free
Chaos, Chaos Pact, Elves, High Elves, Humans, Khemri, Necromantic, Nurgle, Underworld, Slann, Vampire

Tiers Three : 2 double Skills for free
Goblin, Halfling, Ogre

Thanks for your commentaries!

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VoodooMike
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Re: Balance Teams & Diversity for BloodBowl Legend

Postby VoodooMike » 18 March 2017, 22:17

Do you think adding free skills for tiers 2 and tiers 3 teams will be a good idea in order to add some balance and diversity for this fantastic game ?
Heh, you're linking to a NAF tournament... the aspect from those that'd create better diversity is the REZ part, not a couple of extra skills that'll be unlikely to accomplish much in that 2-day tournament much less the perpetual environments of BB2.

I'd love to see more balance and diversity. It'd take a whole lot more than a few skills or tiny tweaks to make it happen.
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dode74
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Re: Balance Teams & Diversity for BloodBowl Legend

Postby dode74 » 18 March 2017, 23:04

The tiers given in the OP are those used for one tournament (albeit a well respected one). They are neither objectively assessed nor are they the tiers designed by BBRC/GW.
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olivier.b
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Re: Balance Teams & Diversity for BloodBowl Legend

Postby olivier.b » 18 March 2017, 23:32

So, are there any other easy ideas to apply for inscreasing teams diversity?
It was boring for me to meet dwarves & dwarves & dwarves with BB1
I hope BB2 will bring some news.
I would like to meet more vampires, ogre halfings and goblins without thinking easy win when i meet them !!!

Have Cyanide's team some news about teams balance / change?

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VoodooMike
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Re: Balance Teams & Diversity for BloodBowl Legend

Postby VoodooMike » 19 March 2017, 08:16

So, are there any other easy ideas to apply for inscreasing teams diversity?
Full TVPlus would do the trick, balancing all rosters simultaneously without years of trial and error and without altering the rosters in any way... but even talking about it will anger the especially-unwashed masses.
I would like to meet more vampires, ogre halfings and goblins without thinking easy win when i meet them !!!
Yeah, me too, but enough people feel it's deeply important that some rosters just suck (not the ones they play, mind you) that it'll be hard to get any headway on anything that runs contrary to that principle.
Have Cyanide's team some news about teams balance / change?
They really shouldn't change the rosters directly.. that ends up forcing everyone to play under that change everywhere, and some people may want to use the original rosters in their own private leagues. Plus, there's no guaranteed way to change them and bring them into balance... it'll all be blind trial and error, which is long and messy.

Doesn't mean they won't do that, of course.. messy and suboptimal has never bothered them in the past.
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dragonwolf
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Re: Balance Teams & Diversity for BloodBowl Legend

Postby dragonwolf » 19 March 2017, 21:06

the path to increase diversity is a rework of the AI . Legendary is expecting to bring a mix humans and AI on leagues . So an enhanced AI with a higher level of difficulty would help to create that diversity you are looking for . That would allow to populate the league , reduce the wait on MM and would improve better match making with similar tv team . But it is an entire different debate and Cyanide is not ready to focus on this aspect of the game which i can understand as they have other priority with legendary edition

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VoodooMike
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Re: Balance Teams & Diversity for BloodBowl Legend

Postby VoodooMike » 20 March 2017, 08:37

the path to increase diversity is a rework of the AI . Legendary is expecting to bring a mix humans and AI on leagues . So an enhanced AI with a higher level of difficulty would help to create that diversity you are looking for . That would allow to populate the league , reduce the wait on MM and would improve better match making with similar tv team .
I don't know that that's a solution to multiplayer problems... to force people to play singleplayer games when they can't find good human opponents. Is it really "diversity" or "balance" if we have the computer create a bunch of teams for rosters real humans don't want to play for whatever reason?

Also, Cyanide won't do it because they're never going to improve the AI. Next idea!
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Re: Balance Teams & Diversity for BloodBowl Legend

Postby twitch/the_sage_bb » 20 March 2017, 09:49

I think it would be good to have some optional balance measures for the stunty races, which leagues could enable. Rostered chef/bribes, rostered stars, P access on the bomber, loner removal from trolls, increase ogres to 0-10 and replace snotlings with goblins are all ones I could see leagues choosing to enable.

Of these, rostered chef/bribes (for flings/gobbos, respectively) are an option I'd encourage for the ladders too, since (even loosely) TV-based matchmaking is awful on stunties without it. Especially since, after losing for a while, they'll get to play with inducements even less under the current matchmaking system.
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dragonwolf
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Re: Balance Teams & Diversity for BloodBowl Legend

Postby dragonwolf » 20 March 2017, 21:32

i agree with the sage. I may have omit the word "optional" but it does not take anything away from my initial point. If a coach is looking for diversity in MM , he won t find it in COL passed a certain tv level . It is a deterrant at some point to just have repetitive match vs the same type opponent. Having the "option" to generate match vs other races can be more fun for a lot of coach. Obviously not with the current AI level as there is no real challenge as they have such a predictable behavior but if they ever manage to make it competitive for the average player then it can really be a selling point for Cyanide

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VoodooMike
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Re: Balance Teams & Diversity for BloodBowl Legend

Postby VoodooMike » 21 March 2017, 00:09

I think it would be good to have some optional balance measures for the stunty races, which leagues could enable.
Sure, I'm all for optional stuff.. but pretty heavily against altering the rosters for the main open league, or if they don't plan on making it optional and turned off by default in private leagues. To date they haven't been particularly good about making things optional.
Of these, rostered chef/bribes (for flings/gobbos, respectively) are an option I'd encourage for the ladders too, since (even loosely) TV-based matchmaking is awful on stunties without it. Especially since, after losing for a while, they'll get to play with inducements even less under the current matchmaking system.
I'm always entertained when people who are opposed to environment changes like TVPlus or rez are in favour of altering the rosters and/or the basic rules instead.
I may have omit the word "optional" but it does not take anything away from my initial point.
Adding the word "optional" doesn't make what either of you two are suggesting less severe given that we're all clearly talking about open play in COL not little private leagues. Everything is "optional" to Cyanide, but not optional to the people playing in those environments.

They've had 8 years to improve the AI, with people calling for its improvement every year since the first BB release. I don't think there's any argument you can make to them that hasn't been made before.
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